[16:53:40] Xavi: pingus?
[16:53:41] … :-)
[16:54:08] * Xavi ha agregado a axold08 gary.cunningham-lee jb4299 mangapower marclaporte.com nelsonkoth robertoj.lopez sampaioprimo a este chat
[16:54:10] * gary.cunningham-lee ha abandonado este chat.
[16:54:32] Xavi: hello all
[16:54:31] giancapino: yes, ciao xavi, I'm setting up skype on the pc, wait a few seconds
[16:54:45] Xavi: ok
[16:54:52] Roberto López: hello
[16:54:55] … i'm online
[16:54:54] Nelson Ko: hi
[16:55:18] Aldo BG: hi xavi
[16:55:30] … hi nelson!
[16:55:37] Rodrigo Sampaio Primo: hi
[16:55:44] Aldo BG: hi rodrigo!
[16:55:45] Jonny Bradley: hi everybody!
[16:55:58] Aldo BG: hi jonny!
[16:56:04] * Xavi ha agregado a gary.cunningham-lee a este chat
[16:56:03] Aldo BG: lol there are a lot of people here
[16:56:06] Jonny Bradley: hi Mr A :)
[16:56:10] * gary.cunningham-lee ha abandonado este chat.
[16:56:30] * Jonny Bradley needs tea, because it's tea-time (brb)
[16:55:30] MangaPower: me too
[16:55:32] … hi
[16:56:58] Marc Laporte: LOL
[16:57:29] * Xavi ha cambiado el tema del chat a "Audioconference + chat on workspaces"
[16:57:58] * Marc Laporte ha agregado a sylvie-g a este chat
[16:58:10] Marc Laporte: everyone should add everyone as contacts
[16:58:28] Rodrigo Sampaio Primo: I will be following the chat but I'm not going to participate on the audio conference, sorry
[16:58:36] Aldo BG: i'm doing it
[16:58:37] Xavi: ok
[16:59:45] Roberto López: done
[16:59:46] sylvie-g: can you invite sylvie-greverend (it is on a computer with sound)
[16:59:55] * Xavi ha agregado a luciash a este chat
[17:01:39] Jonny Bradley: back
[17:01:42] Xavi: ok sylvie-g
[17:01:53] sylvie-g: thx
[17:02:17] * Xavi ha agregado a sylvie-greverend a este chat
[17:02:21] luciash d' being: hola
[17:02:31] Xavi: hello sylvie-greverend :-)
[17:02:31] Roberto López: hola ;-)
[17:02:31] MangaPower: hola
[17:02:33] Xavi: and hi luciash
[17:03:01] … mmm, I don't know how to start the audio with all of you at the same time...
[17:03:07] luciash d' being: hola, hola, hola-la :)
[17:03:23] Aldo BG: lol haha
[17:03:26] Nelson Ko: right click on the heading and click start conference call
[17:03:46] … sorry
[17:03:55] Roberto López: jijiji
[17:03:59] Nelson Ko: should i do it again?
[17:04:14] Xavi: mmm, yes, please. I can't see that option in the skype I have here
[17:04:19] Jonny Bradley: (wasntme)
[17:05:34] Aldo BG: glups I had my bluetooth off
[17:06:03] Roberto López: ben, are you in the lab?
[17:06:25] Marc Laporte: hi
[17:06:26] luciash d' being: when i mute mic in skype i am not heard i hope :-p
[17:06:26] MangaPower: yeah
[17:06:38] Roberto López: go ou the lab
[17:06:41] MangaPower: i'm  in the lab, whY?
[17:06:43] … ???
[17:06:44] Roberto López: we hear your converstion
[17:06:51] Aldo BG: hey can any call me?
[17:06:54] … i lost the call
[17:06:55] Marc Laporte: I have no sound
[17:06:55] Aldo BG: lol
[17:07:01] MangaPower: no, it's julian
[17:07:10] Roberto López: yes, we i hear julian
[17:07:19] … it's better if you go out the lab
[17:07:21] Jonny Bradley: i think we have 2 groups
[17:07:25] MangaPower: ok
[17:07:28] … wait a sec
[17:07:42] Jonny Bradley: i'm in one with sylvie, marc, luci & gary
[17:07:45] luciash d' being: i hear jonny, sylvie and gary
[17:07:55] Aldo BG: hold on a sec lol in my case i lost the call xD
[17:08:06] * Rodrigo Sampaio Primo ha abandonado este chat.
[17:08:31] Nelson Ko: can you bring me itno your audio conference?
[17:08:40] Roberto López: me too please
[17:08:41] … ;-)
[17:08:49] Aldo BG: and mee
[17:09:36] MangaPower: me too please
[17:09:38] … jaja
[17:10:10] Xavi: let's see...
[17:10:20] … we need some agenda for  this meeeting
[17:10:21] giancapino: skype test calls hangs and says 'no proxy found' and icon in tray toggles to exclamative mark. It was working earlier
[17:10:24] Xavi: the first idea was:
[17:10:26] … Agenda
(1) What the big issues are with the new feature "Workspaces" for Tiki 4?
(2) Who is working (or willing to work) on what?
(3) What are the priorities?
*(4) What is going to change in the tiki perms and categories (general ideas)?*
[17:10:36] luciash d' being: what i miss here is no indication who wants to talk :-p
[17:10:50] Marc Laporte: polom
[17:11:00] Xavi: luciash, I agree
[17:11:14] luciash d' being: do you see i have muted my mic icon ?
[17:11:19] Roberto López: sure
[17:11:26] sylvie-greverend: yes
[17:11:27] Xavi: no luciash
[17:12:14] Aldo BG: i mute my mic
[17:12:24] … do you see something?
[17:13:07] sylvie-greverend: I do not see you are mute aldo
[17:13:30] giancapino: I may want to talk to Roberto, and ask if and how we can set up a Q&A forum for discussing the stuff. I miss some interlocution, the workspaces page is quite a presentation but doesn't dig into the issues
[17:13:54] … and the mailing list is too dispersive
[17:14:24] Roberto López: ok
[17:14:35] Nelson Ko: the order we see is all random
[17:14:42] … So why not xavi: you chair the meeting
[17:14:49] Roberto López: +1
[17:14:49] Jonny Bradley: agreed
[17:15:12] Nelson Ko: and people who want to speak type into chat first
[17:15:34] Aldo BG: ok
[17:15:37] Xavi: let's go frot he first point
[17:15:38] Aldo BG: i have my mic mute
[17:15:42] sylvie-greverend: sound perfect for me
[17:15:48] Xavi: 
(1) What the big issues are with the new feature "Workspaces" for Tiki 4?
[17:15:50] Aldo BG: xavi talk first
[17:15:53] Roberto López: big issues
[17:15:58] … first point
[17:16:01] Aldo BG: ok
[17:16:11] Xavi: I talk first, then
[17:16:13] Roberto López: sure
[17:16:15] Xavi: what I know....
[17:16:43] Marc Laporte: modules too
[17:16:58] Aldo BG: ok
[17:17:02] … im going to talk
[17:17:06] … what we have
[17:17:15] Roberto López: yes
[17:17:16] Jonny Bradley: yy
[17:17:16] sylvie-greverend: ys
[17:17:17] Xavi: yes
[17:17:20] luciash d' being: y
[17:16:23] MangaPower: hi, i'm back
[17:16:27] … sorry for the delay
[17:17:49] Roberto López: please, invite mangapower
[17:17:49] Xavi: 1st point: summary: refactoring on groups, categories, permissions, and modules
[17:18:26] … ben: can you write a summary in the chat while aldo is talking?
[17:18:33] Roberto López: FYI: http://dev.tiki.org/workspace#Creation_and_Identification_of_Workspaces
[17:18:35] Xavi: so that we have a log of thekey points (if new, etc.)
[17:18:44] … ?
[17:19:30] MangaPower: I don't hear anything
[17:19:35] Xavi: luciash, can you invite mangapower
[17:19:36] … ?
[17:19:49] luciash d' being: Xavi: haha, don't know how :-p
[17:20:01] sylvie-greverend: my turn
[17:20:05] Jonny Bradley: here's the page on dev: http://dev.tiki.org/Workspace
[17:20:35] Aldo BG: could you repeat
[17:20:36] … plz
[17:20:42] … i didnt heard you very well
[17:20:47] … yeah
[17:20:53] … ok
[17:20:59] Xavi: alddo: /cash/=cache
[17:21:08] sylvie-greverend: the cache in categlib is badly done
[17:21:08] Aldo BG: ok thx
[17:21:13] … ok ok
[17:21:17] … this is very important
[17:21:27] … yeah
[17:21:29] … :D
[17:21:36] … ok
[17:21:48] sylvie-greverend: questions?
[17:21:49] Roberto López: may I talk?
[17:22:07] Xavi: go ahead
[17:22:15] … sorry mangapower, I don't know how to add you
[17:22:25] … nelson do you know how to add someone else to the audio conference?
[17:22:47] sylvie-greverend: +1 for touching it
[17:23:02] Aldo BG: yeah we are very confused about this
[17:23:08] … as far we have perms for workspaces
[17:23:11] sylvie-greverend: can I speak
[17:23:15] Aldo BG: sure
[17:23:45] Roberto López: sure
[17:23:57] Jonny Bradley: +1
[17:23:57] Aldo BG: yes
[17:24:04] Xavi: yes
[17:24:05] Marc Laporte: +1
[17:24:20] Jonny Bradley: shall i speak?
[17:24:27] Marc Laporte: so no love for old category perms :-)
[17:24:35] Roberto López: i don't hear silvieg?
[17:24:40] Aldo BG: we need to refactor it
[17:24:48] Xavi: I do
[17:24:54] … can you hear the others?
[17:24:55] Jonny Bradley: roberto - it's says you are on hold
[17:24:59] Roberto López: no
[17:25:01] Aldo BG: ok
[17:25:08] Jonny Bradley: click the pause button
[17:25:12] Marc Laporte: may I speak?
[17:25:22] Roberto López: allright
[17:25:25] … thanks jb
[17:25:32] Xavi: yes
[17:25:34] Roberto López: i hate pause buttons
[17:25:36] Jonny Bradley: i dont hear marc
[17:25:37] Xavi: MArc go ahead
[17:25:49] Roberto López: i don't hear marc either
[17:25:56] Jonny Bradley: shall i have a go?
[17:25:58] Aldo BG: marc is very shy
[17:26:00] … lol
[17:26:13] Marc Laporte: go! I will find a better mic
[17:26:31] luciash d' being: Marc: it indicates you're speaking but no voice from you
[17:26:43] Aldo BG: yes
[17:26:48] Roberto López: +1
[17:27:30] Aldo BG: this is very important
[17:27:31] Roberto López: may I?
[17:27:34] Nelson Ko: can i talk?
[17:27:43] Roberto López: nelson please
[17:27:44] … yes
[17:27:47] Xavi: nelson
[17:28:05] sylvie-greverend: I  like the idea of root categories as special categories
[17:28:09] Roberto López: i guess yes
[17:28:37] giancapino: I hear nothing. I only see text. Mybe someone has to include me? 
[17:28:54] Xavi: can I speak?
[17:28:57] Roberto López: yes yes
[17:28:58] Aldo BG: we are very limited in categories because if we have ws1 - ws12 right now the solution is done by recursion
[17:29:08] Roberto López: you are right
[17:29:26] Aldo BG: yes
[17:29:37] Roberto López: add giancapino
[17:29:38] Aldo BG: but at least i don't like how aulawiki solves that
[17:29:48] … xavi
[17:29:49] MangaPower: and me!
[17:29:55] Aldo BG: because with that tables
[17:30:02] MangaPower: Until now I didn't hear nothing
[17:30:02] Aldo BG: you have performance problems
[17:30:13] Roberto López: yes
[17:30:23] … then we hace the problem of collisions
[17:30:36] sylvie-greverend: ws1::teachers
[17:30:44] Aldo BG: yeah
[17:30:49] Roberto López: wsi::lastname
[17:31:12] luciash d' being: hehe
[17:31:13] Aldo BG: this is how we think to implement right now
[17:31:25] … lol
[17:31:26] Roberto López: ben pute your mic in mute
[17:31:31] Jonny Bradley: only the "host" can add more people
[17:31:39] MangaPower: mute?
[17:31:41] … ok
[17:31:45] Aldo BG: yeah pause it
[17:31:45] Xavi: who is the host? luciash?
[17:32:22] Aldo BG: well the new field
[17:32:31] luciash d' being: i just did it from chat, right click, add to conference
[17:32:32] Aldo BG: can permit differenciate the ws and categs
[17:32:37] luciash d' being: wow
[17:32:42] … some music :)
[17:32:43] Jonny Bradley: :))
[17:32:43] Roberto López: i hear sexy music
[17:32:44] Aldo BG: lol music
[17:32:45] Marc Laporte: music1
[17:32:46] sylvie-greverend: MUSIC
[17:32:50] Aldo BG: hahahaa
[17:32:55] MangaPower: ?
[17:33:09] Aldo BG: hahaah
[17:33:29] … ok benji can you talk if you want why it is good to have special categories
[17:33:33] Roberto López: may pingus can explain
[17:33:33] Aldo BG: that are workspaces
[17:34:00] … well
[17:34:03] … jonny
[17:34:13] … a workspace is a container
[17:34:17] … with relationships
[17:34:29] Jonny Bradley: yup
[17:35:05] Nelson Ko: I think the question is whether to have a separate db table for workspaces, or to extend tiki_categories
[17:35:14] … I vote for extending tiki_categories
[17:35:23] sylvie-greverend: +1 for nelson
[17:35:26] Aldo BG: yes
[17:35:27] … me too
[17:35:36] Roberto López: nelson is right
[17:35:37] Aldo BG: this is the best way
[17:35:38] MangaPower: Me too
[17:35:45] Aldo BG: because we can extends categories
[17:35:49] * Marc Laporte ha agregado a lphuberdeau a este chat
[17:35:49] Aldo BG: and we have better categories
[17:35:51] luciash d' being: hmmm
[17:35:53] Aldo BG: and better workspaces
[17:36:03] Nelson Ko: ok, now we have to repeat this for lph
[17:36:07] Marc Laporte: hi Louis-Philippe!
[17:36:13] Aldo BG: hi lp
[17:36:14] Jonny Bradley: ok, i just wanted to think about it
[17:36:17] Louis-Philippe Huberdeau: good morning
[17:36:19] Xavi: luciash, add lph to the audio please
[17:36:35] Louis-Philippe Huberdeau: no audio here
[17:36:50] Marc Laporte: LP can't have sound but we can ask him questions in writing
[17:37:02] Aldo BG: ok, nelson type again
[17:37:15] Nelson Ko: Marc: can you cut and paste scroll back  to hom?
[17:37:27] Roberto López: i did't hear
[17:37:30] Marc Laporte: is someone recording the audio?
[17:37:41] Jonny Bradley: oops - no
[17:37:41] Roberto López: repeat, please
[17:37:47] Jonny Bradley: i'll do it (recording)
[17:37:59] Xavi: marc laporte: no t me.
[17:38:02] … jonny: great
[17:38:09] Roberto López: sure
[17:38:33] Aldo BG: ::
[17:38:59] Jonny Bradley: can't record now without restart (not installed on this machine) - anyone else?
[17:39:10] Xavi: hold on...
[17:39:11] … I'll try
[17:39:13] Aldo BG: ws1::teacher
[17:39:17] … ws2::teacher
[17:39:26] Jonny Bradley: pls repeat?
[17:39:42] … is someone in the shower?
[17:39:47] luciash d' being: sorry, i gotta leave now... if you need to add somebody just right click on his nick in your buddy list and click invite to conference or something
[17:39:50] Roberto López: jajajaja
[17:40:02] luciash d' being: bye, bbl
[17:40:05] Aldo BG: ws1::teacher
[17:40:08] … ws2::teacher
[17:40:16] Jonny Bradley: you are host luci - only you have the power!
[17:40:25] MangaPower: I think the only person who can invite is the host
[17:40:30] … yeah
[17:40:32] Marc Laporte: LP: everyone agrees old categ permissions need to be replaced by categ perm system which is fined grained
[17:40:34] MangaPower: that's right
[17:40:36] Nelson Ko: I think ws1::teacher or es2:teacher is good enough for groups
[17:40:36] luciash d' being: huh ? i am the host ? LOL
[17:40:50] Aldo BG: ok
[17:40:51] Nelson Ko: anyone has better idea?
[17:40:55] Aldo BG: bat what happens
[17:41:00] Roberto López: coders
[17:41:01] … ?¿
[17:41:01] Aldo BG: if you have two workspaces
[17:41:03] luciash d' being: i am not aware of it, but if it is so i have to leave this chat open :-p
[17:41:05] Aldo BG: with the same name?
[17:41:14] Xavi: ok, luciash
[17:41:18] luciash d' being: i guess
[17:41:39] Jonny Bradley: ben is that you typing?
[17:41:43] Roberto López: a lot of typing sound
[17:41:53] Aldo BG: do you listen me?
[17:41:54] Marc Laporte: lp: now, debate is new workspace object and db table, etc  vs improving  categories to become super categories. what is your view? did you get a chance to look at this yet
[17:41:56] MangaPower: the problem when you have two workspaces with the same name. Then the solution should be to add the WS id, so it would look like this
[17:41:58] Nelson Ko: i am thinking
[17:41:59] luciash d' being: click the mic icon to mute
[17:42:13] MangaPower: 2::WS1::teacher
[17:42:18] Aldo BG: yea
[17:42:23] … this what i done
[17:42:26] … this morning
[17:42:50] Xavi: the way aulawiki soved that was by adding the prefix of the ws code
[17:42:51] Aldo BG: yeah at the same level it's impossible
[17:42:52] sylvie-greverend: I hope so
[17:42:58] Aldo BG: yes
[17:43:02] … this is possible
[17:41:57] giancapino: What can be more fine-grained than individual object permission?
[17:43:12] Aldo BG: supposse
[17:43:16] … yo have
[17:43:23] MangaPower: yes, the only way to have WS with the same name is to have them in different levels
[17:43:26] Aldo BG: ok talk nelson
[17:43:36] Xavi: giancapino, you are not hearnig, are you?
[17:43:35] Louis-Philippe Huberdeau: improving existing categories has the advantage of duplicating less code
[17:43:47] Aldo BG: can you repeat the last?
[17:43:52] giancapino: no voice! only text
[17:44:08] Nelson Ko: can workspaces be moved?
[17:44:13] MangaPower: you mean sub-WS
[17:44:14] Roberto López: yes
[17:44:15] MangaPower: ¿?
[17:44:40] Marc Laporte: question is about child workspaces: I think this is quite important
[17:44:41] Roberto López: http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6453/wshierachy.jpg
[17:44:41] MangaPower: the only problem is that WS parentId must be stored in description
[17:44:50] Roberto López: we do this now
[17:44:55] … you have childs ws
[17:45:08] Nelson Ko: but parentId can change, since it can be "moved"
[17:45:22] MangaPower: well, currently we are coding in that way
[17:45:24] Xavi: nelson, workspaces from aulawiki mod yes: they can be moved
[17:45:32] … and they can have child workspaces
[17:45:49] Roberto López: http://dev.tiki.org/workspace#How_to_create_a_WS_tree
[17:46:07] Marc Laporte: Jonny asks if complexity cost is worth it
[17:46:10] Roberto López: parentID
[17:46:23] … marc, that's the point
[17:46:25] MangaPower: the idea would be to use a sintax similar to categtree
[17:46:32] Xavi: for use case: education: yes it's needed
[17:46:33] Jonny Bradley: using description for an id is just bad
[17:46:52] Roberto López: we do this because we dont' wnat to change tiki
[17:46:55] Nelson Ko: How about we use the categId?
[17:47:00] MangaPower: it's this or the hits field
[17:47:06] Roberto López: you can't with categid
[17:47:15] MangaPower: yeah
[17:47:17] … wait a sec
[17:47:35] sylvie-greverend: yes
[17:47:36] Roberto López: yes
[17:47:36] MangaPower: ok
[17:47:37] Marc Laporte: y
[17:47:38] Xavi: yes
[17:48:09] Louis-Philippe Huberdeau: if workspaces are separate, they need to be handled as part of permission resolving... which you get for free using categories
[17:48:14] sylvie-greverend: so if we have workspace child - my idea about root category is not good :-(
[17:48:16] Roberto López: description field=determines your parent ; categid = indicates you are a ws
[17:48:27] Louis-Philippe Huberdeau: painful right now, but will hopefully improve soon
[17:48:28] Roberto López: the hierarcgy is buiilt with the description
[17:48:46] Aldo BG: yes
[17:48:49] … but we need to solve this
[17:48:53] … because using description
[17:49:01] … is not the best solution
[17:49:20] Louis-Philippe Huberdeau: additional information in the description field? Isn't it too early in the project for such hacks?
[17:49:22] Jonny Bradley: i liked Sylvie's idea of rootCategoryId
[17:49:34] Nelson Ko: lets add rootCategoryId field
[17:49:34] Aldo BG: so we are asking if we can extend categories
[17:49:40] Xavi: Sorry, I don't get the point. What was the problem with the way workspaces were (are) handled in aulawiki mod?
[17:49:45] Roberto López: we prefer to add fields
[17:49:47] … too
[17:49:55] Aldo BG: so that means
[17:49:55] Roberto López: if you think is convenient
[17:49:56] … ;-)
[17:49:56] MangaPower: yeah
[17:49:57] Xavi: it was solved without using description for parentId , etc.
[17:50:01] Aldo BG: that we are going to add more fields right?
[17:50:16] MangaPower: with just one
[17:50:34] Roberto López: Xavi: in aualwiki we don't know
[17:50:35] Xavi: ok, add fields then, I would say
[17:50:42] Nelson Ko: rootCategoryId just solved this problem
[17:50:42] Roberto López: maybe pingus can explain
[17:50:53] Nelson Ko: But the groups identification problem is still problematic
[17:51:25] Roberto López: actually in aulawiki you have a whole new table for ws
[17:51:29] … this is the way you solve it
[17:51:42] Xavi: yes, several tables
[17:51:49] Roberto López: that's the point
[17:52:05] … we can do magic if you let us create a table ;-)
[17:52:13] … but it's better not to touch too much
[17:52:22] Xavi: roberto, create the tables you need! I would say
[17:52:27] Jonny Bradley: all rootCategoryId does is save a few queries (maybe a lot) but structurally it's the same i think
[17:52:27] Roberto López: no no
[17:52:40] Aldo BG: dont worry
[17:52:44] … but you mean
[17:52:48] … to create another table?
[17:52:50] Xavi: "not to touch too much" ? Touch as much as needed in order to make it work properly and better than before, I would say
[17:53:15] Roberto López: what the other coders think?
[17:53:21] Xavi: "create anothter table": if needed yes. If just one extra field, ok. But if needed, go ahead
[17:53:25] Louis-Philippe Huberdeau: creating a separate system comes with a whole chunk of new problems
[17:53:29] Nelson Ko: i don't think we should create new tables unless it is *really* needed. I agree with Roberto
[17:53:39] Aldo BG: I think we can solve this
[17:53:43] … without creating a new table
[17:53:47] MangaPower: me too
[17:53:47] Aldo BG: only we need
[17:53:48] Roberto López: may I talk?
[17:53:51] Aldo BG: to expends categories
[17:53:51] MangaPower: I agree with Nelson
[17:53:53] Aldo BG: expand
[17:53:53] MangaPower: yeah
[17:53:57] Xavi: ok, ok, whatever is needed to avoid the performance when the system have many workspaces
[17:53:58] Jonny Bradley: if we have a new table we can store lots more stuff like prefix, postfix, delimiter etc
[17:54:32] Roberto López: root
[17:54:33] Xavi: s/performance/performance issues
[17:54:57] Roberto López: right, ben
[17:55:14] Xavi: lp: creating a new table doesn't mean creating a separate system, isn't it? (I'm not a coder, you know)
[17:55:21] … s/lp/lph
[17:55:22] Nelson Ko: All workspaces are child (or grandchild)  categories of the workspace container category
[17:55:43] MangaPower: right Nelson! ;)
[17:55:48] Xavi: Nelson ko: yes
[17:55:54] MangaPower: 1+ for you
[17:56:33] giancapino: you mean something like the tiki_workspaces table of aulawiki?
[17:57:37] Louis-Philippe Huberdeau: I only got half the conversation and I don't really know what the issues are
[17:57:49] Roberto López: one thing more: aualwiki has performance problems
[17:57:52] … dont' forget this
[17:58:00] … we should look into this
[17:58:01] Marc Laporte: pingus: you there?
[17:58:10] Roberto López: pingus, please come in
[17:58:31] Aldo BG: lp
[17:58:37] Roberto López: y
[17:58:37] giancapino: yes, but no voice
[17:58:55] Aldo BG: who is talking? marc?
[17:58:58] Xavi: yes
[17:59:05] Aldo BG: ok
[17:59:10] Xavi: we should stop the audio and start again with the host one of us
[17:59:11] Roberto López: +100
[17:59:21] Xavi: so that we can add people who are not in, like giancapino
[17:59:49] Jonny Bradley: i'm hoping we can loose quite a lot of old tables (all the galaxia ones for instance?  (devil) )
and what does tiki_zones do? (for instance)
[17:59:55] Roberto López: marc, i think this too
[17:59:59] giancapino: the tiki_workspaces table contained the parentId
[18:00:37] … plus various other fields like 'description, isuserws,startdate/enddate/hide etc.
[18:01:07] Roberto López: yes xavi
[18:01:09] MangaPower: ok I'll do it
[18:01:15] Roberto López: ok
[18:01:16] … xavi
[18:01:19] … you the host
[18:01:27] … ok
[18:01:37] Louis-Philippe Huberdeau: what do you want to be stored in tiki_workspaces?
[18:02:02] Roberto López: ok
[18:02:04] MangaPower: ok
[18:02:05] sylvie-greverend: coffee time
[18:02:12] Marc Laporte: hahahahha
[18:02:13] Roberto López: bye
[18:03:58] Xavi: ringing again
[18:04:00] … to all of you
[18:05:04] Aldo BG: please mute your mics
[18:05:09] … if you dont have in mind to talk
[18:05:17] … there are too much noise
[18:05:36] Marc Laporte: yes, but sound is not as good as before
[18:05:42] Roberto López: i can't hear
[18:05:47] Nelson Ko: the sound is bad for me too
[18:05:50] MangaPower: I can
[18:05:58] sylvie-greverend: sound is hased for me
[18:06:05] … hashed
[18:06:14] MangaPower: I could try to make it
[18:06:20] Marc Laporte: yes, i will
[18:06:21] Aldo BG: ok
[18:06:26] … let's give a try benji
[18:06:32] Roberto López: i don't hear
[18:06:38] MangaPower: ok
[18:06:39] Xavi: ok, ben, give it a try
[18:06:40] MangaPower: starting...
[18:06:58] Xavi: I had to paly with voice codecs weeks ago, and I might miss some voice codec
[18:07:07] … yes, I can hear
[18:07:40] Nelson Ko: can you mute yourself if you are not speaking?
[18:08:02] Xavi: ben, can you add giancarlo?
[18:08:05] Roberto López: ben mutes your mic
[18:08:07] Jonny Bradley: back
[18:08:11] MangaPower: aldo became the host!
[18:08:13] Aldo BG: i am the host
[18:08:19] … so im going to add him
[18:08:19] Roberto López: add pingus please
[18:08:20] MangaPower: aldo, I'll do it
[18:08:22] Xavi: aldo, add giancapino, please
[18:08:26] … he is on skype right now
[18:08:35] Louis-Philippe Huberdeau: this is not working, please write the options down and email me
[18:08:37] Aldo BG: ok
[18:08:48] … im going to add him
[18:08:51] * Louis-Philippe Huberdeau ha abandonado este chat.
[18:08:53] Aldo BG: because i forgot
[18:08:59] … to do it before
[18:09:04] Jonny Bradley: i'm ready to record - i suggest we start with a recap of where we got to
[18:09:11] Roberto López: +1
[18:09:12] Aldo BG: ok
[18:09:18] Xavi: +1
[18:09:21] Aldo BG: plz xavi you are the leading guy
[18:09:33] … im adding
[18:09:35] … him
[18:09:39] Roberto López: i only see ben, nelson, gary and xavi
[18:10:11] sylvie-greverend: you are the hoster mac
[18:10:15] … marc
[18:10:21] Jonny Bradley: i see 10 people (not including "the other" Sylvie ;)
[18:10:45] Roberto López: pingus
[18:10:46] MangaPower: Marc, can u add me?
[18:10:47] Roberto López: ?¿
[18:10:53] sylvie-greverend: jonny you are not in the same chat than me...
[18:11:05] Jonny Bradley: i'm in this one - is there another?
[18:11:07] Roberto López: am I in the right chat?
[18:11:09] … :-)
[18:11:17] … jijijiji
[18:11:19] Xavi: I hope so
[18:11:27] sylvie-greverend: jonny I do not see you in the audio
[18:11:41] Jonny Bradley: no, i haven't got a call yet
[18:11:43] Roberto López: ben is no here
[18:11:45] Jonny Bradley: just chat
[18:11:59] Roberto López: where is jonny?
[18:12:00] MangaPower: ...
[18:12:07] Jonny Bradley: so it's a very quiet recording so far...
[18:12:13] Aldo BG: jonny
[18:12:18] … marc is the leader
[18:12:20] … right now
[18:12:29] … he is going to add you
[18:12:34] Jonny Bradley: lovely
[18:12:41] MangaPower: I need to be added too
[18:13:23] Xavi: jonny?
[18:13:31] Aldo BG: manga power?
[18:13:32] Jonny Bradley: still no call :(
[18:13:38] Aldo BG: benji are u there?
[18:13:50] Roberto López: ok
[18:13:55] MangaPower: nope
[18:14:00] … me too
[18:14:04] Aldo BG: marc
[18:14:04] Jonny Bradley: i tihnk if i try and call in i'll start another one
[18:14:06] Xavi: marc will try again
[18:14:07] Aldo BG: is going to call again
[18:14:11] Xavi: with all of us
[18:15:06] … mlp is gone?
[18:15:13] Jonny Bradley: yup
[18:15:45] Aldo BG: if you want i can try again
[18:16:57] Xavi: also, are you using GNU/Linux? if so, then, we'd better let someone with newer version of skype do it
[18:17:13] Aldo BG: in my case im using mac
[18:17:21] … but we can give a try again
[18:17:28] Xavi: I'm using skype for ubuntu (latest, I think) and it seemed that voice was not good for all
[18:17:41] Roberto López: i ubuntu too
[18:17:45] Aldo BG: ok
[18:17:49] … im going
[18:17:54] … to try again
[18:18:14] Xavi: giancarlo?
[18:18:39] sylvie-greverend: ok for me
[18:19:01] Jonny Bradley: who's got the light sabre?
[18:19:07] Xavi: ?
[18:19:11] MangaPower: haahah
[18:19:11] Roberto López: jajajajaja
[18:19:17] Xavi: giancarlo/pingus? can you hear ?
[18:19:18] Aldo BG: lol
[18:19:20] Roberto López: star wars
[18:19:38] … welcome jb
[18:19:41] … wait for marc
[18:19:56] … canada is too far
[18:20:06] Nelson Ko: is anyone calling me?
[18:20:15] Roberto López: invite nelson
[18:20:19] Aldo BG: yea im
[18:20:26] Jonny Bradley: Marc's back
[18:20:55] Aldo BG: ok
[18:20:58] … i dont now
[18:21:03] … how to add one to the conversation
[18:21:07] … i mean
[18:21:11] … i see start conference call
[18:21:17] … but ... this is for starting
[18:21:21] … new one
[18:21:32] Jonny Bradley: look for "add to conference call..."
[18:21:42] Aldo BG: ok
[18:21:46] MangaPower: Ok, let me do it
[18:21:58] Jonny Bradley: the host has to do it
[18:22:05] MangaPower: last time I don't know why I didn't became the host, but now I'll do it
[18:22:08] Jonny Bradley: go to the contacts window & right click
[18:22:28] MangaPower: let me start the conference and Ill be able to do it
[18:22:31] Roberto López: Some points: 1-new field for categories? 2-should we modify the categ perms? 3-special tables for ws? or a better new design in modules and things tiki already has?
[18:22:37] … to recap
[18:22:40] MangaPower: ok
[18:23:23] Xavi: marc, we need giancapino and nelson
[18:23:38] Jonny Bradley: we have 2 chats too...?
[18:23:45] sylvie-greverend: ok so ,... I agre to put the workspaces in the categ table like this withnhave the tree structure for WS + an additional column for rootCategId
[18:24:09] Nelson Ko: +1 sylvie
[18:24:34] Roberto López: +1
[18:24:40] sylvie-greverend: how will we do the naming dispatch...
[18:24:41] Aldo BG: i heard you
[18:24:47] sylvie-greverend: group has no ID...
[18:24:56] Roberto López: pingus is not in
[18:25:01] … ok
[18:25:23] … Some points: 1-new field for categories? 2-should we modify the categ perms? 3-special tables for ws? or a better new design in modules and things tiki already has?
[18:25:33] Jonny Bradley: should wew clost this one?
[18:25:36] … close
[18:25:39] Roberto López: ok
[18:25:53] * Jonny Bradley ha abandonado este chat.
[18:26:02] * Marc Laporte ha agregado a gary.cunningham-lee a este chat
[18:26:05] Xavi: we should use this chat
[18:26:16] … called "Audioconference + chat on worksapce"
[18:26:32] * Aldo BG ha agregado a jb4299 a este chat
[18:27:11] giancapino: ok, the THIS is the last chatroom?
[18:27:19] Aldo BG: this is the original one
[18:27:34] Jonny Bradley: ok, i'm here too - but no audio
[18:27:43] Roberto López: jajajaja
[18:27:51] Nelson Ko: I agree with what sylvie said about the need to make sure we use groupId vs groupName
[18:28:05] … seems necessary for any future robustness....
[18:28:16] Marc Laporte: yes, sylvie, we need to clean up everywhere to use IDs instead of names
[18:28:23] Roberto López: what do you mean nelson?
[18:28:41] sylvie-greverend: if everything is known by id _ after it should be easy to interpret the names...
[18:29:04] Aldo BG: ok but you mean
[18:29:12] Roberto López: echo echo
[18:29:13] Aldo BG: functions where you ask for the id
[18:29:16] … not for the name?
[18:29:22] … or i'm missing something
[18:29:38] Nelson Ko: I'll explain this is a while
[18:29:40] sylvie-greverend: yes to go from name to ws1:name and back
[18:29:41] Nelson Ko: Focus on Xavi first
[18:29:52] Aldo BG: ok
[18:30:45] Roberto López: correct!
[18:30:54] Aldo BG: we can vote
[18:31:37] sylvie-greverend: +1 for xavi
[18:31:47] Roberto López: visca el barsa
[18:31:47] Xavi: anybody else to add things?
[18:32:04] sylvie-greverend: +1 for aldo
[18:32:07] MangaPower: yeah, no need for a new table
[18:32:12] Nelson Ko: agree ^
[18:32:19] Roberto López: no new table, new fields are enough
[18:32:29] MangaPower: yeah
[18:32:40] … currently, for WS, just one is enough
[18:32:43] Roberto López: ask for more, you have the coders here ;-)
[18:32:59] sylvie-greverend: :-)
[18:33:43] Nelson Ko: let's first discuss what might be needed in this new table
[18:33:46] … shall we?
[18:34:20] MangaPower: what would be necessary?
[18:34:30] … well, it would be similar to categories
[18:35:21] … wsId, wsName, description, parentId, hits
[18:35:25] sylvie-greverend: so you will create ws1:categ
[18:35:38] … like ws1:group
[18:35:48] Aldo BG: +1 to sylvie
[18:35:49] MangaPower: better said, if there were a tiki_workspaces table, it would look exactly to tiki_categories
[18:36:48] Roberto López: yes
[18:37:04] sylvie-greverend: yes
[18:37:48] MangaPower: when u want to simply categorize
[18:38:28] Roberto López: sure
[18:39:36] giancapino: Guys. Can we open a dedicated forum, where we can have minutes to analyse, sewach funcion names and tables fields etc? 
[18:40:15] Aldo BG: oh shit
[18:40:17] … i lost the cal
[18:40:19] … call
[18:40:31] Roberto López: id
[18:40:30] Marc Laporte: we need organic groups
[18:40:38] Roberto López: +1000
[18:40:46] Aldo BG: are u speaking?
[18:40:47] Roberto López: organic ws is waht we need
[18:40:48] Aldo BG: i lost the call
[18:40:56] … yeah but organic workspaces
[18:41:00] … can be done with profiles
[18:41:03] … inmo
[18:41:05] … imho
[18:41:18] Roberto López: y
[18:41:21] MangaPower: yea
[18:41:46] Xavi: "to edit the group"?
[18:41:53] sylvie-greverend: CAN YOU REPEAT?
[18:41:57] … soory caps
[18:42:06] Xavi: I've lost the call
[18:42:07] … ¿?
[18:42:16] Marc Laporte: yes, we need to add more features to groups,
[18:42:22] Xavi: is it only mewho lost the call?
[18:42:23] sylvie-greverend: we need a groupId
[18:43:14] Roberto López: ws1::physics
[18:43:32] … you need a group id
[18:43:27] giancapino: Don't we need to make also groups as objects, with their objectperms?
[18:44:04] Aldo BG: oh shit
[18:44:06] … i lost again the call
[18:44:08] … :(
[18:44:10] giancapino: So we can 'categorize' some groups who belong to the categories/workspaces?
[18:44:11] sylvie-greverend: but it will be a general problem -as page name too
[18:44:20] Roberto López: jijiji
[18:44:36] Aldo BG: plz marc
[18:44:50] … ¿?
[18:44:58] … arg
[18:45:36] … i missed like two minutes
[18:45:43] Roberto López: yes
[18:45:49] Xavi: MArc, can you add aldo and me to the call again, please?
[18:45:49] Roberto López: jijiji
[18:45:57] Aldo BG: im in the call
[18:46:02] Xavi: I don't know why I seem to have been kicked out...
[18:46:17] Roberto López: don't worry
[18:46:20] sylvie-greverend: so group::WS1 or Ws1::group?
[18:46:23] Roberto López: jajajaja
[18:46:24] Xavi: bl***dy skype
[18:46:20] giancapino: Please, LET'S OPEN A DEDICATED FORUM on this subject!
[18:46:28] sylvie-greverend: :-)
[18:46:29] Roberto López: you not going to be paid
[18:46:30] … anymore
[18:46:33] … bad news
[18:47:08] Nelson Ko: cut off
[18:47:08] MangaPower: I lost nelson!
[18:47:09] sylvie-greverend: I lost the call
[18:47:14] Jonny Bradley: ooh? everyone's gone?
[18:47:18] Roberto López: I lost my wallet
[18:47:19] MangaPower: noooo we lost everyone
[18:47:18] gary.cunningham-lee: I'm off too.
[18:47:20] Aldo BG: im in
[18:47:23] … im a survivor
[18:47:27] Jonny Bradley: :)
[18:47:28] gary.cunningham-lee: :-)
[18:47:30] Xavi: skype has its own life ;-)
[18:47:35] MangaPower: ok
[18:47:49] Xavi: and selecting people to be kicked off from time to time at his(her?) will
[18:48:00] sylvie-greverend: his will
[18:48:04] Xavi: :-)
[18:48:13] … :-D his/her
[18:48:32] giancapino: hi
[18:48:37] MangaPower: i'm here
[18:48:40] Xavi: hi again
[18:48:41] MangaPower: :D
[18:49:30] Xavi: +1 marc : realtime communication
[18:49:32] Jonny Bradley: i will investigate another system for next time (teamspeak.com)
[18:49:34] Roberto López: yes
[18:49:39] Xavi: jonny: +1
[18:49:50] Jonny Bradley: not sure if it's FLOSS tho
[18:49:55] Nelson Ko: btw [off-topic] fred from bigbluebutton: we're releasing a new version at the end of this week that has desktop sharing ... how about I set you up with an accont on our demo server (separate from others) early next week
[18:49:57] Xavi: (2) Who is working (or willing to work) on what?
(3) What are the priorities?
*(4) What is going to change in the tiki perms and categories (general ideas)?*
[18:50:51] … there were some other points for this meeting (2), (3) and (4, if agreed)
[18:50:57] giancapino: I feel embarassed at having to say +1 or -1 here. One needs time to analyse. Let's get a forum
[18:51:26] Xavi: conversation is still on giancapino
[18:51:39] … after that, no problem for me to use a forum
[18:51:50] sylvie-greverend: ok for me too
[18:52:04] Roberto López: interacts
[18:54:34] giancapino: I still have to understand the design of the new workspaces. I will cooperate of course. Priority for me is to get a clear idea.
[18:55:14] Aldo BG: ....
[18:55:24] … again kicked out
[18:56:20] Marc Laporte: all 1000+ preferences could be overriden per workspace
[18:56:34] Aldo BG: with profiles
[18:56:36] Marc Laporte: yes, gary, ideally
[18:56:40] Aldo BG: it can be possible do it
[18:56:47] … even we can generate automatic profiles
[18:57:03] … generated by gui interface or something like that
[18:58:09] Marc Laporte: yes, but what if we want workspace admin to manage?
[18:58:24] … (these modules)
[18:58:39] … but not control overall
[18:58:47] Roberto López: you check firsr your local preferences
[18:58:52] Aldo BG: yes
[18:59:14] Xavi: aulawiki mod has another set of modules...
[18:59:22] … all the ones starting by workspaces_...
[18:59:30] … managed by the workspace admin , afaik
[18:59:52] … yes, nelson
[19:00:01] … you set them for a WS type
[19:00:09] … yes, and db tables for that, in aulawiki
[19:01:36] Roberto López: yes
[19:01:44] … we should conisder this latter
[19:01:48] … i agree
[19:02:47] sylvie-greverend: if somebody can add me to the sound thx
[19:02:54] MangaPower: nothing special
[19:03:04] … I'm added in the sound
[19:06:08] sylvie-greverend: a lot of echo.....
[19:06:43] Roberto López: we create new perms
[19:06:44] … http://dev.tiki.org/workspace#New_permission_for_WS_management
[19:06:45] MangaPower: there are two kind of permissions
[19:06:50] Roberto López: have look here
[19:06:51] MangaPower: the global ones
[19:06:55] … and the local to ws
[19:07:02] gary.cunningham-lee: ah, I got dropped
[19:08:23] Xavi: nelson says: tiki has no "group leader" right now
[19:08:33] Aldo BG: i don't heard very well
[19:08:33] Xavi: group leader funcionality
[19:08:34] MangaPower: yah
[19:08:35] Aldo BG: :s
[19:08:40] Roberto López: yeah
[19:08:53] MangaPower: with workspaces there will be a "group leader" functionality
[19:08:54] Nelson Ko: 2 options:
[19:09:16] Roberto López: but now we create new perms for dealing with this
[19:09:16] Nelson Ko: 1) develop workspaces straight off: so to get group leader functionaloty, you need to use workspaces
[19:09:23] Roberto López: am I wrong?
[19:09:36] Nelson Ko: 2) develop lower-level group leader functionaloty, then build workspaces on top of that
[19:09:41] Roberto López: ok
[19:09:45] … i understand
[19:09:56] Aldo BG: ok
[19:10:02] … yeah
[19:10:03] Nelson Ko: do you see the difference between these 2 approaches?
[19:10:05] MangaPower: currently what we are doing is
[19:10:20] Aldo BG: well
[19:10:37] Xavi: nelson, that was solved by jreyes in aulawiki by adding two subgroups for each ws: one ws-owner/manager, and ws-participants
[19:10:39] … kind of
[19:10:49] … fyi
[19:10:49] MangaPower: when u create a ws, you add (or create) a group and give to this group the "leader" functionality
[19:10:58] Nelson Ko: xavi: that is an ugly solution
[19:11:06] Roberto López: yes
[19:11:06] Xavi: ok, nelson
[19:11:19] Aldo BG: well
[19:11:19] Xavi: it was just a "fyi" :-)
[19:11:24] Marc Laporte: anybody missing?
[19:11:27] Aldo BG: when we create a workspace
[19:11:39] … there are a special group or special groups
[19:11:50] MangaPower: I already told it
[19:11:50] Aldo BG: that acts as leaders
[19:11:52] … ok
[19:11:54] … sorry
[19:11:58] … i didn't see that
[19:11:59] MangaPower: when u create a ws, you add (or create) a group and give to this group the "leader" functionality
[19:12:39] giancapino: with aulawiki there can be two non-admins functions: Workarea-admin(can admin the whole ws tree starting at one ws down) and single-ws-resource manager 
[19:13:29] Marc Laporte: everyone: i have to go now
[19:13:35] MangaPower: ohhh
[19:13:34] giancapino: plus the generic ws-member
[19:14:39] MangaPower: with the new implementation you can not only globaly admin the ws but locally to every WS and with different lvls of managements
[19:15:18] … I will write down a hierachy of admins levels that a group can have in a WS
[19:15:24] … top-down
[19:15:47] gary.cunningham-lee: (Good night everybody - 2am in Japan) and great work so far!)
[19:16:01] Xavi: g'night gary, thanks for staying up late night
[19:16:08] … for the audio confernce
[19:16:12] MangaPower: adminws
admingroups+adminperms
admingroups+adminobjects
adminperms+adminobjects
admingroups
adminperms
adminobjects
view
[19:16:26] sylvie-greverend: good night gary
[19:16:45] … y
[19:17:51] Roberto López: do you think we should continue in the way we are?
[19:17:59] … al least until the next tikifest
[19:17:59] giancapino: Another problem I see is the need, maybe only in some cases, for a 'ownership' on certain resources. If a resource belongs to two categories/ws, who can remove it? Can be resources be non-removable?
[19:19:23] Xavi: Mmmm, maybe we could continue discussion through the devel list, whatever is needed, before TikiFEstBarcelona
[19:19:34] Roberto López: ok
[19:19:37] … good idea
[19:19:44] Nelson Ko: we could have a call at the mini tiki fest montreal
[19:19:56] Xavi: so that gianpino can also follow  there...
[19:19:59] Nelson Ko: I think (speaking for Marc...)
[19:19:59] Xavi: and nelson, good idea
[19:20:01] MangaPower: who is the host?
[19:20:14] Aldo BG: mee
[19:20:23] MangaPower: add me
[19:20:29] … to the converstation
[19:20:35] Aldo BG: i don't know how
[19:20:38] … im searching
[19:20:40] MangaPower: ...
[19:21:10] … just right click on my name and look for something that says "add"
[19:21:18] Aldo BG: i no have that option
[19:21:20] … ¬¬
[19:21:20] Jonny Bradley: back - my skype fell over
[19:21:33] MangaPower: shit
[19:21:44] giancapino: I read, you planned  more detailed perms than tiki_p_admin_ws and tiki_p_ws_resource. 
[19:23:01] MangaPower: that's right
[19:23:16] Aldo BG: mangapower
[19:23:19] … i added you
[19:23:21] … but ...
[19:23:58] MangaPower: you can read all of it in http://dev.tiki.org/workspace#New_permission_for_WS_management
[19:24:42] … In fact, we have already added those perms in our experimental branch
[19:24:47] Roberto López: I don't hear
[19:25:05] giancapino: OK, I mean, at the start we were willing to constrain everything inside 3 category perms...
[19:25:19] MangaPower: yeah
[19:25:33] … but now we have extra perms related ONLY to WS
[19:25:38] sylvie-greverend: in trunk? or experimental branch?
[19:25:47] MangaPower: no need to have more category permissions
[19:25:52] sylvie-greverend: yes?
[19:26:22] … yes because experimental has the aulawiki?
[19:26:42] MangaPower: until now we haven't found any inconvenients using the current perms and only adding ws perms
[19:26:42] sylvie-greverend: ah!
[19:27:01] Roberto López: http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki/branches/experimental/ws/
[19:27:04] … correct
[19:27:09] MangaPower: that's it
[19:27:10] Roberto López: we have our own
[19:27:15] … aulawiki is in mods
[19:27:17] MangaPower: yep
[19:27:24] giancapino: The paragraph on WS perms doesn't state clearly which ones will be used as object perms on the workspace, and which ones as global tiki-wide perms..
[19:27:43] sylvie-greverend: ok =1
[19:27:47] … +1
[19:28:09] MangaPower: ok
[19:28:20] … admin, addWS, removeWS = global
[19:28:26] giancapino: Because a local ws-admin or ws-resource-manager will have only objectperms from the ws/category object, 0 global perms for his group..
[19:29:13] MangaPower: adminws,adminresources,adminperms,admingroups,view as object perm on a WS
[19:29:45] giancapino: admingroups !
[19:29:46] MangaPower: if u have adminws = to have admingroups,adminperms and adminresources
[19:29:46] sylvie-greverend: for delete - you can use recursion in database - it is only one time....
[19:30:35] giancapino: admingroups with 0 global perms. That's what I war writing about lately
[19:31:18] MangaPower: we will aply admingroups only as objectPerm
[19:31:21] … no need to be global
[19:31:56] … if you have tiki_p_ws_admin then you can admingroups globaly
[19:32:07] giancapino: so groups must become object that grant their admingroup perms to that ws group.
[19:32:29] Nelson Ko: one se
[19:32:31] MangaPower: I don't get what you're trying to say
[19:32:59] … sorry if don't talk, besides, I'm not hearing you guys
[19:33:35] Roberto López: may I enter?
[19:33:51] sylvie-greverend: welcome
[19:34:07] Roberto López: i don't hear
[19:34:12] MangaPower: pingus: when a group is given access to a ws, then in tiki_objectsperms there will be an enty with the groupName, the WS Id and a perm called "tiki_p_ws_view"
[19:34:13] Aldo BG: do you heard me?
[19:34:15] … im talking
[19:34:16] … but ...
[19:34:25] … im talking
[19:34:27] … shit
[19:34:27] Xavi: Aldo, I can't not hear
[19:34:28] Roberto López: if you are preparing a party I ant to know
[19:34:34] Aldo BG: ok
[19:34:36] Nelson Ko: MangaPower: that's right
[19:34:36] Xavi: jonny and sylvie either
[19:34:41] Aldo BG: :s
[19:34:43] MangaPower: well, if i'm not included in the audio, it'll be a little hard to hear you...
[19:34:46] Aldo BG: i dont want to close
[19:34:49] sylvie-greverend: technology is not ready....
[19:34:51] Nelson Ko: MangaPower: all this basic stuff you can go ahead and implement first
[19:34:53] Jonny Bradley: if we're going to publish this chat somewhere we should watch our language (please)
[19:34:53] Aldo BG: the the conversation
[19:34:58] … because all of you
[19:35:07] … can listen each others
[19:35:07] … right?
[19:35:15] Roberto López: +1 nelson +1 ben
[19:35:20] … i'm out the conference
[19:35:21] sylvie-greverend: if somebody wants to implemetn the categ perms...
[19:35:24] Roberto López: invite me please
[19:35:25] Aldo BG: ok
[19:35:28] … well please
[19:35:33] MangaPower: Nelson: 1+ for you
[19:35:36] Aldo BG: what was your
[19:35:38] … question?
[19:35:39] Nelson Ko: sylvie-greverend: exactly what about categ perms need implementing?
[19:35:51] giancapino: to complete the stuff, I think we must be able to 'categorize' some (not all) groups, so that these become workspace groups, and grant objectpermission to addusers/be_included/removed etc
[19:35:53] Xavi: aldo, can you add the other people again to the audio?
[19:35:58] … or recall again?
[19:35:58] Aldo BG: im trying
[19:36:15] sylvie-greverend: we need to change the tiki_p_view_categorized to the all set of perms ... by itself it is quite a job
[19:36:17] MangaPower: pingus: no need to categorize groups
[19:36:36] … just give them the "tiki_p_ws_view" permission for a X WS
[19:36:37] Roberto López: +1 silvieg
[19:36:45] … we talked about this change
[19:36:53] MangaPower: it's easier than categorizing a group
[19:37:29] … let me try to do the call
[19:37:38] … I did it before but didn't work
[19:37:52] giancapino: granting object perms of a resource to a group, is not the same as including a group into a group.
[19:38:12] Aldo BG: benji
[19:38:18] … im adding you to the audio
[19:38:27] MangaPower: ok
[19:38:31] … come, asap
[19:38:39] Aldo BG: well
[19:38:42] MangaPower: :P
[19:38:43] Aldo BG: it is trying
[19:38:45] … to connect you
[19:38:49] … but there is no response
[19:38:53] … as i see
[19:39:00] … shit
[19:39:02] … error
[19:39:10] Nelson Ko: sylvie, roberto: I actually don't understand "change the tiki_p_view_categorized to the all set of perms" but we can talk about this after if both of you understand it
[19:39:29] MangaPower: right
[19:39:44] Roberto López: it's like stending the perms of categories
[19:39:52] … extending
[19:40:00] … categories become tiki objects like wikis
[19:40:08] … so you have the same perms yoou have for a wiki
[19:40:25] … it's what i have in my mind
[19:40:33] Nelson Ko: Roberto: that big work
[19:40:47] Roberto López: it's what silvieg said ;-)
[19:40:51] MangaPower: well, currently categories are treated as objects
[19:40:53] Roberto López: i'm not sure whetehr we need this
[19:40:59] Nelson Ko: (I know  now what sylvie is referring to, early on months ago I had discussed this briefly with SYlvie)
[19:41:30] Roberto López: do you have sound? I don't :-(
[19:41:37] Nelson Ko: Roberto: well, in my opinion, sylvie's approach will make the "foundation" of workspaces much better
[19:41:49] Jonny Bradley: Aldo needs to add you Rober
[19:41:50] MangaPower: Rober: until now we didn't come to the conclusion that we need this extension of categories perms
[19:42:06] Nelson Ko: Otherwise, you are stuck messing with object perms directly
[19:42:18] Xavi: Please, impriove the syummery of the conversation here:
[19:42:18] … http://dev.tiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=090709+Audioconference+on+WS
[19:42:19] Roberto López: right
[19:42:20] Nelson Ko: which "works"
[19:42:26] … but clumsy
[19:42:47] Roberto López: xavi
[19:43:00] Nelson Ko: Roberto: Anyway, it overlaps with the improvement sylvie wants to make onto categories perms
[19:43:06] Roberto López: yes
[19:43:26] … maybe next tikifest before barcelona we can talk about this issue
[19:43:46] Nelson Ko: I'm sure it'll be discussed at the Montreal mini-tikifest
[19:44:18] MangaPower: the permissions issue is really extensive
[19:44:41] Roberto López: ok folks
[19:44:28] giancapino: But very often you need to have different perms for resources of the same type. You might want a page private and another public and another shared with another workspace.
[19:44:55] Roberto López: for me is ok
[19:45:36] MangaPower: First we need to get focused in the structure of workspaces (how to add/remove WS, add/remove objects, add/quit groups, list WS, ...) and make it scalable and stable
[19:45:42] Nelson Ko: giancapino: the solution for that is possibly to refactor the object perms ao augment (rather than replace) the categ perms (which I think/hope sylvie has a plan for)
[19:45:44] MangaPower: then will come the permissions issue
[19:45:56] giancapino: Even if you use categories as a template for creating resources with default perms, you need to be able to change it for any individual resource. With objectperms I suppose, not by creating a new ad-hoc category..
[19:46:06] MangaPower: how to implement and manage the perms in objects,...
[19:46:27] … At this point I agree with giancarlo
[19:46:48] … It's better that objects have their own perms
[19:47:00] Nelson Ko: yes, but I think  the solution for that is possibly to refactor the object perms ao augment (rather than replace) the categ perms (which I think/hope sylvie has a plan for)
[19:48:08] Roberto López: by folks!
[19:48:11] sylvie-greverend: I will write a page
[19:48:12] … by
[19:48:15] Jonny Bradley: bibi
[19:48:17] sylvie-greverend: bye
[19:48:17] MangaPower: well, I think I'll leave too
[19:48:22] Xavi: ok, guy, see you son in the next audio conference, devel-list and tikifestbarcelona of course! :-)
[19:48:24] MangaPower: nice to talk with u guys
[19:48:28] Aldo BG: byee
[19:48:29] Xavi: yes, see you
[19:48:31] MangaPower: bye
[19:48:40] Aldo BG: yeah me too
[19:48:40] Nelson Ko: thanks sylveie, a page will help :) bye
[19:49:26] * Roberto López ha abandonado este chat.
[19:49:56] giancapino: By all, let's start a forum please. I'd do it at altervista, but mail (alert) is broken there.
[19:50:37] … ciao a todos
[19:51:02] * Jonny Bradley ha abandonado este chat