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  luciash d' being 🧙 10 Apr 09 20:24 GMT-0000

  We're not Joomla...
  I wonder why you insist on calling them "templates" ? (See this wiki page history.) We have "Themes" in Tiki (XHTML layout + CSS). Templates we call only the Smarty tpl files or "Content templates" to be used in wiki pages.

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    matwho 11 Apr 09 13:40 GMT-0000

    I never started a comparison with other software! I hope we don't do that and this discussion is meant to get us away from comparing designs. It is hoped to goo to the fundamentals of the issue and allow us to build our own way (which will be much better than any thing else out there!)

    I called them Templates by mistake, if that prevents you from taking part in the discussion I am sorry. If you see any places I have not replaced templates with themes please do it for me

    > We're not Joomla...
    > I wonder why you insist on calling them "templates" ? (See this wiki page history.) We have "Themes" in Tiki (XHTML layout + CSS). Templates we call only the Smarty tpl files or "Content templates" to be used in wiki pages.
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    luciash d' being 🧙 13 Apr 09 21:58 GMT-0000

    > I called them Templates by mistake, if that prevents you from taking part in the discussion I am sorry. If you see any places I have not replaced templates with themes please do it for me

    ok, it's no problem for me, i'll do it again
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  Gary Cunningham-Lee 11 Apr 09 09:25 GMT-0000

  I'm not sure about the logic flow here, exactly. Yes, Joomla has more, spiffier themes than Tiki, but Joomla, without outside intrevention, is also locked into a grid (see a default Joomla installation with its standard MilkyWay theme, for example), so I don't believe the default grid is the reason for Tiki being uglier than Joomla. Out of the box, Tiki, especially in recent releases, has quite a bit more layout flexibility than Joomla does.

  I think the reason for the relative ugliness is use cases. Joomla is used a lot for presentation, Tiki for collaboration. Joomla sites want to leverage eye candy to increase their appeal, to grow their audience; Tiki sites, often with an audience already in place (organization membership, etc.) have generally just needed adequate looks that don't get in the way of functionality. Of course this has created a chicken-egg cycle and designer types aren't attracted to Tiki the way Joomla's presentation market spawns thememakers/sellers.

  About Tiki's grid, the proportions can be changed easily, of course, but have been what they are primarily due to the nature of the module contents, such as lists of activity and menus. These things can be proportioned differently and it just takes tweaking the column widths, font sizes, padding, etc., so the referenced golden section layout is easy to achieve in Tiki now.

  Implementing the "natural grid" with center content apparently interrupting the flow of the left column and so on will be a neat trick that I look forward to seeing. Good discussion started; thanks.
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  Arnaud HERVE 11 Sep 09 20:54 GMT-0000

  I am longing for a site where menus are not in columns, but in divs inside the page.

  That would help me when menu is shorter than page : at the bottom wikitext takes back the whole width. Divs would also help when menu is too long, for instance by making two divs on the same side, or whole width divs up or below.

  However, in the past I tried to make a WOW style. I gave up because it took me too long to perfect it through the crowd of small css items. I was even tired of scrolling down and up the css file.

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