Audioconference on skype about Workspaces July 09th 2009
Time zone Paris (France) Thursday, July 9, 2009 at 5:00:00 PMUTC+2 hours
(other time zones)
- Refactor groups to use groupId instead of group name
- group leaders are needed
- naming problem: needs solution
- add root category id (?)
New db tables vs. new fields in current tables
- there seems to be agreement in adding just new field/s to existing tables, instead of using new tables as the aulawiki mod did.
Technology for audioconferences
- We need to improve the system for the audioconferences. Skype seemed to be the minimum, but we look forward to find something better. Some people suggested "teamspeak", and they might try it during the next mini TikiFest in Montreal. Also BigBlueButton.org?
- If using Skype (and probably other systems) it is important that the "host" (whoever initiates the conference call) stays around for the duration of it, otherwise anyone disconnected cannot be re-invited.
- Marc Laporte
- Nelson Ko
- Roberto LÃ³pez
- Aldo BG
- Rodrigo Sampaio Primo
- Jonny Bradley
- luciash d' being
This is a partial recording of the audio conference. Sadly (until Marc pointed it out) I wasn't recording, sorry about that. I have cut out sections where there was no relevant conversation about the project. Much of the time we were talking about how it wasn't working properly, or waiting for people to get back into the conference having fallen out.
N.B. The sound quality is extremely variable...
[16:53:40] Xavi: pingus? [16:53:41] â€¦ :-) [16:54:08] * Xavi ha agregado a axold08 gary.cunningham-lee jb4299 mangapower marclaporte.com nelsonkoth robertoj.lopez sampaioprimo a este chat [16:54:10] * gary.cunningham-lee ha abandonado este chat. [16:54:32] Xavi: hello all [16:54:31] giancapino: yes, ciao xavi, I'm setting up skype on the pc, wait a few seconds [16:54:45] Xavi: ok [16:54:52] Roberto LÃ³pez: hello [16:54:55] â€¦ i'm online [16:54:54] Nelson Ko: hi [16:55:18] Aldo BG: hi xavi [16:55:30] â€¦ hi nelson! [16:55:37] Rodrigo Sampaio Primo: hi [16:55:44] Aldo BG: hi rodrigo! [16:55:45] Jonny Bradley: hi everybody! [16:55:58] Aldo BG: hi jonny! [16:56:04] * Xavi ha agregado a gary.cunningham-lee a este chat [16:56:03] Aldo BG: lol there are a lot of people here [16:56:06] Jonny Bradley: hi Mr A :) [16:56:10] * gary.cunningham-lee ha abandonado este chat. [16:56:30] * Jonny Bradley needs tea, because it's tea-time (brb) [16:55:30] MangaPower: me too [16:55:32] â€¦ hi [16:56:58] Marc Laporte: LOL [16:57:29] * Xavi ha cambiado el tema del chat a "Audioconference + chat on workspaces" [16:57:58] * Marc Laporte ha agregado a sylvie-g a este chat [16:58:10] Marc Laporte: everyone should add everyone as contacts [16:58:28] Rodrigo Sampaio Primo: I will be following the chat but I'm not going to participate on the audio conference, sorry [16:58:36] Aldo BG: i'm doing it [16:58:37] Xavi: ok [16:59:45] Roberto LÃ³pez: done [16:59:46] sylvie-g: can you invite sylvie-greverend (it is on a computer with sound) [16:59:55] * Xavi ha agregado a luciash a este chat [17:01:39] Jonny Bradley: back [17:01:42] Xavi: ok sylvie-g [17:01:53] sylvie-g: thx [17:02:17] * Xavi ha agregado a sylvie-greverend a este chat [17:02:21] luciash d' being: hola [17:02:31] Xavi: hello sylvie-greverend :-) [17:02:31] Roberto LÃ³pez: hola ;-) [17:02:31] MangaPower: hola [17:02:33] Xavi: and hi luciash [17:03:01] â€¦ mmm, I don't know how to start the audio with all of you at the same time... [17:03:07] luciash d' being: hola, hola, hola-la :) [17:03:23] Aldo BG: lol haha [17:03:26] Nelson Ko: right click on the heading and click start conference call [17:03:46] â€¦ sorry [17:03:55] Roberto LÃ³pez: jijiji [17:03:59] Nelson Ko: should i do it again? [17:04:14] Xavi: mmm, yes, please. I can't see that option in the skype I have here [17:04:19] Jonny Bradley: (wasntme) [17:05:34] Aldo BG: glups I had my bluetooth off [17:06:03] Roberto LÃ³pez: ben, are you in the lab? [17:06:25] Marc Laporte: hi [17:06:26] luciash d' being: when i mute mic in skype i am not heard i hope :-p [17:06:26] MangaPower: yeah [17:06:38] Roberto LÃ³pez: go ou the lab [17:06:41] MangaPower: i'm in the lab, whY? [17:06:43] â€¦ ??? [17:06:44] Roberto LÃ³pez: we hear your converstion [17:06:51] Aldo BG: hey can any call me? [17:06:54] â€¦ i lost the call [17:06:55] Marc Laporte: I have no sound [17:06:55] Aldo BG: lol [17:07:01] MangaPower: no, it's julian [17:07:10] Roberto LÃ³pez: yes, we i hear julian [17:07:19] â€¦ it's better if you go out the lab [17:07:21] Jonny Bradley: i think we have 2 groups [17:07:25] MangaPower: ok [17:07:28] â€¦ wait a sec [17:07:42] Jonny Bradley: i'm in one with sylvie, marc, luci & gary [17:07:45] luciash d' being: i hear jonny, sylvie and gary [17:07:55] Aldo BG: hold on a sec lol in my case i lost the call xD [17:08:06] * Rodrigo Sampaio Primo ha abandonado este chat. [17:08:31] Nelson Ko: can you bring me itno your audio conference? [17:08:40] Roberto LÃ³pez: me too please [17:08:41] â€¦ ;-) [17:08:49] Aldo BG: and mee [17:09:36] MangaPower: me too please [17:09:38] â€¦ jaja [17:10:10] Xavi: let's see... [17:10:20] â€¦ we need some agenda for this meeeting [17:10:21] giancapino: skype test calls hangs and says 'no proxy found' and icon in tray toggles to exclamative mark. It was working earlier [17:10:24] Xavi: the first idea was: [17:10:26] â€¦ Agenda (1) What the big issues are with the new feature "Workspaces" for Tiki 4? (2) Who is working (or willing to work) on what? (3) What are the priorities? *(4) What is going to change in the tiki perms and categories (general ideas)?* [17:10:36] luciash d' being: what i miss here is no indication who wants to talk :-p [17:10:50] Marc Laporte: polom [17:11:00] Xavi: luciash, I agree [17:11:14] luciash d' being: do you see i have muted my mic icon ? [17:11:19] Roberto LÃ³pez: sure [17:11:26] sylvie-greverend: yes [17:11:27] Xavi: no luciash [17:12:14] Aldo BG: i mute my mic [17:12:24] â€¦ do you see something? [17:13:07] sylvie-greverend: I do not see you are mute aldo [17:13:30] giancapino: I may want to talk to Roberto, and ask if and how we can set up a Q&A forum for discussing the stuff. I miss some interlocution, the workspaces page is quite a presentation but doesn't dig into the issues [17:13:54] â€¦ and the mailing list is too dispersive [17:14:24] Roberto LÃ³pez: ok [17:14:35] Nelson Ko: the order we see is all random [17:14:42] â€¦ So why not xavi: you chair the meeting [17:14:49] Roberto LÃ³pez: +1 [17:14:49] Jonny Bradley: agreed [17:15:12] Nelson Ko: and people who want to speak type into chat first [17:15:34] Aldo BG: ok [17:15:37] Xavi: let's go frot he first point [17:15:38] Aldo BG: i have my mic mute [17:15:42] sylvie-greverend: sound perfect for me [17:15:48] Xavi: (1) What the big issues are with the new feature "Workspaces" for Tiki 4? [17:15:50] Aldo BG: xavi talk first [17:15:53] Roberto LÃ³pez: big issues [17:15:58] â€¦ first point [17:16:01] Aldo BG: ok [17:16:11] Xavi: I talk first, then [17:16:13] Roberto LÃ³pez: sure [17:16:15] Xavi: what I know.... [17:16:43] Marc Laporte: modules too [17:16:58] Aldo BG: ok [17:17:02] â€¦ im going to talk [17:17:06] â€¦ what we have [17:17:15] Roberto LÃ³pez: yes [17:17:16] Jonny Bradley: yy [17:17:16] sylvie-greverend: ys [17:17:17] Xavi: yes [17:17:20] luciash d' being: y [17:16:23] MangaPower: hi, i'm back [17:16:27] â€¦ sorry for the delay [17:17:49] Roberto LÃ³pez: please, invite mangapower [17:17:49] Xavi: 1st point: summary: refactoring on groups, categories, permissions, and modules [17:18:26] â€¦ ben: can you write a summary in the chat while aldo is talking? [17:18:33] Roberto LÃ³pez: FYI: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/workspace#Creation_and_Identification_of_Workspaces [17:18:35] Xavi: so that we have a log of thekey points (if new, etc.) [17:18:44] â€¦ ? [17:19:30] MangaPower: I don't hear anything [17:19:35] Xavi: luciash, can you invite mangapower [17:19:36] â€¦ ? [17:19:49] luciash d' being: Xavi: haha, don't know how :-p [17:20:01] sylvie-greverend: my turn [17:20:05] Jonny Bradley: here's the page on dev: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace [17:20:35] Aldo BG: could you repeat [17:20:36] â€¦ plz [17:20:42] â€¦ i didnt heard you very well [17:20:47] â€¦ yeah [17:20:53] â€¦ ok [17:20:59] Xavi: alddo: /cash/=cache [17:21:08] sylvie-greverend: the cache in categlib is badly done [17:21:08] Aldo BG: ok thx [17:21:13] â€¦ ok ok [17:21:17] â€¦ this is very important [17:21:27] â€¦ yeah [17:21:29] â€¦ :D [17:21:36] â€¦ ok [17:21:48] sylvie-greverend: questions? [17:21:49] Roberto LÃ³pez: may I talk? [17:22:07] Xavi: go ahead [17:22:15] â€¦ sorry mangapower, I don't know how to add you [17:22:25] â€¦ nelson do you know how to add someone else to the audio conference? [17:22:47] sylvie-greverend: +1 for touching it [17:23:02] Aldo BG: yeah we are very confused about this [17:23:08] â€¦ as far we have perms for workspaces [17:23:11] sylvie-greverend: can I speak [17:23:15] Aldo BG: sure [17:23:45] Roberto LÃ³pez: sure [17:23:57] Jonny Bradley: +1 [17:23:57] Aldo BG: yes [17:24:04] Xavi: yes [17:24:05] Marc Laporte: +1 [17:24:20] Jonny Bradley: shall i speak? [17:24:27] Marc Laporte: so no love for old category perms :-) [17:24:35] Roberto LÃ³pez: i don't hear silvieg? [17:24:40] Aldo BG: we need to refactor it [17:24:48] Xavi: I do [17:24:54] â€¦ can you hear the others? [17:24:55] Jonny Bradley: roberto - it's says you are on hold [17:24:59] Roberto LÃ³pez: no [17:25:01] Aldo BG: ok [17:25:08] Jonny Bradley: click the pause button [17:25:12] Marc Laporte: may I speak? [17:25:22] Roberto LÃ³pez: allright [17:25:25] â€¦ thanks jb [17:25:32] Xavi: yes [17:25:34] Roberto LÃ³pez: i hate pause buttons [17:25:36] Jonny Bradley: i dont hear marc [17:25:37] Xavi: MArc go ahead [17:25:49] Roberto LÃ³pez: i don't hear marc either [17:25:56] Jonny Bradley: shall i have a go? [17:25:58] Aldo BG: marc is very shy [17:26:00] â€¦ lol [17:26:13] Marc Laporte: go! I will find a better mic [17:26:31] luciash d' being: Marc: it indicates you're speaking but no voice from you [17:26:43] Aldo BG: yes [17:26:48] Roberto LÃ³pez: +1 [17:27:30] Aldo BG: this is very important [17:27:31] Roberto LÃ³pez: may I? [17:27:34] Nelson Ko: can i talk? [17:27:43] Roberto LÃ³pez: nelson please [17:27:44] â€¦ yes [17:27:47] Xavi: nelson [17:28:05] sylvie-greverend: I like the idea of root categories as special categories [17:28:09] Roberto LÃ³pez: i guess yes [17:28:37] giancapino: I hear nothing. I only see text. Mybe someone has to include me? [17:28:54] Xavi: can I speak? [17:28:57] Roberto LÃ³pez: yes yes [17:28:58] Aldo BG: we are very limited in categories because if we have ws1 - ws12 right now the solution is done by recursion [17:29:08] Roberto LÃ³pez: you are right [17:29:26] Aldo BG: yes [17:29:37] Roberto LÃ³pez: add giancapino [17:29:38] Aldo BG: but at least i don't like how aulawiki solves that [17:29:48] â€¦ xavi [17:29:49] MangaPower: and me! [17:29:55] Aldo BG: because with that tables [17:30:02] MangaPower: Until now I didn't hear nothing [17:30:02] Aldo BG: you have performance problems [17:30:13] Roberto LÃ³pez: yes [17:30:23] â€¦ then we hace the problem of collisions [17:30:36] sylvie-greverend: ws1::teachers [17:30:44] Aldo BG: yeah [17:30:49] Roberto LÃ³pez: wsi::lastname [17:31:12] luciash d' being: hehe [17:31:13] Aldo BG: this is how we think to implement right now [17:31:25] â€¦ lol [17:31:26] Roberto LÃ³pez: ben pute your mic in mute [17:31:31] Jonny Bradley: only the "host" can add more people [17:31:39] MangaPower: mute? [17:31:41] â€¦ ok [17:31:45] Aldo BG: yeah pause it [17:31:45] Xavi: who is the host? luciash? [17:32:22] Aldo BG: well the new field [17:32:31] luciash d' being: i just did it from chat, right click, add to conference [17:32:32] Aldo BG: can permit differenciate the ws and categs [17:32:37] luciash d' being: wow [17:32:42] â€¦ some music :) [17:32:43] Jonny Bradley: :)) [17:32:43] Roberto LÃ³pez: i hear sexy music [17:32:44] Aldo BG: lol music [17:32:45] Marc Laporte: music1 [17:32:46] sylvie-greverend: MUSIC [17:32:50] Aldo BG: hahahaa [17:32:55] MangaPower: ? [17:33:09] Aldo BG: hahaah [17:33:29] â€¦ ok benji can you talk if you want why it is good to have special categories [17:33:33] Roberto LÃ³pez: may pingus can explain [17:33:33] Aldo BG: that are workspaces [17:34:00] â€¦ well [17:34:03] â€¦ jonny [17:34:13] â€¦ a workspace is a container [17:34:17] â€¦ with relationships [17:34:29] Jonny Bradley: yup [17:35:05] Nelson Ko: I think the question is whether to have a separate db table for workspaces, or to extend tiki_categories [17:35:14] â€¦ I vote for extending tiki_categories [17:35:23] sylvie-greverend: +1 for nelson [17:35:26] Aldo BG: yes [17:35:27] â€¦ me too [17:35:36] Roberto LÃ³pez: nelson is right [17:35:37] Aldo BG: this is the best way [17:35:38] MangaPower: Me too [17:35:45] Aldo BG: because we can extends categories [17:35:49] * Marc Laporte ha agregado a lphuberdeau a este chat [17:35:49] Aldo BG: and we have better categories [17:35:51] luciash d' being: hmmm [17:35:53] Aldo BG: and better workspaces [17:36:03] Nelson Ko: ok, now we have to repeat this for lph [17:36:07] Marc Laporte: hi Louis-Philippe! [17:36:13] Aldo BG: hi lp [17:36:14] Jonny Bradley: ok, i just wanted to think about it [17:36:17] Louis-Philippe Huberdeau: good morning [17:36:19] Xavi: luciash, add lph to the audio please [17:36:35] Louis-Philippe Huberdeau: no audio here [17:36:50] Marc Laporte: LP can't have sound but we can ask him questions in writing [17:37:02] Aldo BG: ok, nelson type again [17:37:15] Nelson Ko: Marc: can you cut and paste scroll back to hom? [17:37:27] Roberto LÃ³pez: i did't hear [17:37:30] Marc Laporte: is someone recording the audio? [17:37:41] Jonny Bradley: oops - no [17:37:41] Roberto LÃ³pez: repeat, please [17:37:47] Jonny Bradley: i'll do it (recording) [17:37:59] Xavi: marc laporte: no t me. [17:38:02] â€¦ jonny: great [17:38:09] Roberto LÃ³pez: sure [17:38:33] Aldo BG: :: [17:38:59] Jonny Bradley: can't record now without restart (not installed on this machine) - anyone else? [17:39:10] Xavi: hold on... [17:39:11] â€¦ I'll try [17:39:13] Aldo BG: ws1::teacher [17:39:17] â€¦ ws2::teacher [17:39:26] Jonny Bradley: pls repeat? [17:39:42] â€¦ is someone in the shower? [17:39:47] luciash d' being: sorry, i gotta leave now... if you need to add somebody just right click on his nick in your buddy list and click invite to conference or something [17:39:50] Roberto LÃ³pez: jajajaja [17:40:02] luciash d' being: bye, bbl [17:40:05] Aldo BG: ws1::teacher [17:40:08] â€¦ ws2::teacher [17:40:16] Jonny Bradley: you are host luci - only you have the power! [17:40:25] MangaPower: I think the only person who can invite is the host [17:40:30] â€¦ yeah [17:40:32] Marc Laporte: LP: everyone agrees old categ permissions need to be replaced by categ perm system which is fined grained [17:40:34] MangaPower: that's right [17:40:36] Nelson Ko: I think ws1::teacher or es2:teacher is good enough for groups [17:40:36] luciash d' being: huh ? i am the host ? LOL [17:40:50] Aldo BG: ok [17:40:51] Nelson Ko: anyone has better idea? [17:40:55] Aldo BG: bat what happens [17:41:00] Roberto LÃ³pez: coders [17:41:01] â€¦ ?Â¿ [17:41:01] Aldo BG: if you have two workspaces [17:41:03] luciash d' being: i am not aware of it, but if it is so i have to leave this chat open :-p [17:41:05] Aldo BG: with the same name? [17:41:14] Xavi: ok, luciash [17:41:18] luciash d' being: i guess [17:41:39] Jonny Bradley: ben is that you typing? [17:41:43] Roberto LÃ³pez: a lot of typing sound [17:41:53] Aldo BG: do you listen me? [17:41:54] Marc Laporte: lp: now, debate is new workspace object and db table, etc vs improving categories to become super categories. what is your view? did you get a chance to look at this yet [17:41:56] MangaPower: the problem when you have two workspaces with the same name. Then the solution should be to add the WS id, so it would look like this [17:41:58] Nelson Ko: i am thinking [17:41:59] luciash d' being: click the mic icon to mute [17:42:13] MangaPower: 2::WS1::teacher [17:42:18] Aldo BG: yea [17:42:23] â€¦ this what i done [17:42:26] â€¦ this morning [17:42:50] Xavi: the way aulawiki soved that was by adding the prefix of the ws code [17:42:51] Aldo BG: yeah at the same level it's impossible [17:42:52] sylvie-greverend: I hope so [17:42:58] Aldo BG: yes [17:43:02] â€¦ this is possible [17:41:57] giancapino: What can be more fine-grained than individual object permission? [17:43:12] Aldo BG: supposse [17:43:16] â€¦ yo have [17:43:23] MangaPower: yes, the only way to have WS with the same name is to have them in different levels [17:43:26] Aldo BG: ok talk nelson [17:43:36] Xavi: giancapino, you are not hearnig, are you? [17:43:35] Louis-Philippe Huberdeau: improving existing categories has the advantage of duplicating less code [17:43:47] Aldo BG: can you repeat the last? [17:43:52] giancapino: no voice! only text [17:44:08] Nelson Ko: can workspaces be moved? [17:44:13] MangaPower: you mean sub-WS [17:44:14] Roberto LÃ³pez: yes [17:44:15] MangaPower: Â¿? [17:44:40] Marc Laporte: question is about child workspaces: I think this is quite important [17:44:41] Roberto LÃ³pez: http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6453/wshierachy.jpg [17:44:41] MangaPower: the only problem is that WS parentId must be stored in description [17:44:50] Roberto LÃ³pez: we do this now [17:44:55] â€¦ you have childs ws [17:45:08] Nelson Ko: but parentId can change, since it can be "moved" [17:45:22] MangaPower: well, currently we are coding in that way [17:45:24] Xavi: nelson, workspaces from aulawiki mod yes: they can be moved [17:45:32] â€¦ and they can have child workspaces [17:45:49] Roberto LÃ³pez: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/workspace#How_to_create_a_WS_tree [17:46:07] Marc Laporte: Jonny asks if complexity cost is worth it [17:46:10] Roberto LÃ³pez: parentID [17:46:23] â€¦ marc, that's the point [17:46:25] MangaPower: the idea would be to use a sintax similar to categtree [17:46:32] Xavi: for use case: education: yes it's needed [17:46:33] Jonny Bradley: using description for an id is just bad [17:46:52] Roberto LÃ³pez: we do this because we dont' wnat to change tiki [17:46:55] Nelson Ko: How about we use the categId? [17:47:00] MangaPower: it's this or the hits field [17:47:06] Roberto LÃ³pez: you can't with categid [17:47:15] MangaPower: yeah [17:47:17] â€¦ wait a sec [17:47:35] sylvie-greverend: yes [17:47:36] Roberto LÃ³pez: yes [17:47:36] MangaPower: ok [17:47:37] Marc Laporte: y [17:47:38] Xavi: yes [17:48:09] Louis-Philippe Huberdeau: if workspaces are separate, they need to be handled as part of permission resolving... which you get for free using categories [17:48:14] sylvie-greverend: so if we have workspace child - my idea about root category is not good :-( [17:48:16] Roberto LÃ³pez: description field=determines your parent ; categid = indicates you are a ws [17:48:27] Louis-Philippe Huberdeau: painful right now, but will hopefully improve soon [17:48:28] Roberto LÃ³pez: the hierarcgy is buiilt with the description [17:48:46] Aldo BG: yes [17:48:49] â€¦ but we need to solve this [17:48:53] â€¦ because using description [17:49:01] â€¦ is not the best solution [17:49:20] Louis-Philippe Huberdeau: additional information in the description field? Isn't it too early in the project for such hacks? [17:49:22] Jonny Bradley: i liked Sylvie's idea of rootCategoryId [17:49:34] Nelson Ko: lets add rootCategoryId field [17:49:34] Aldo BG: so we are asking if we can extend categories [17:49:40] Xavi: Sorry, I don't get the point. What was the problem with the way workspaces were (are) handled in aulawiki mod? [17:49:45] Roberto LÃ³pez: we prefer to add fields [17:49:47] â€¦ too [17:49:55] Aldo BG: so that means [17:49:55] Roberto LÃ³pez: if you think is convenient [17:49:56] â€¦ ;-) [17:49:56] MangaPower: yeah [17:49:57] Xavi: it was solved without using description for parentId , etc. [17:50:01] Aldo BG: that we are going to add more fields right? [17:50:16] MangaPower: with just one [17:50:34] Roberto LÃ³pez: Xavi: in aualwiki we don't know [17:50:35] Xavi: ok, add fields then, I would say [17:50:42] Nelson Ko: rootCategoryId just solved this problem [17:50:42] Roberto LÃ³pez: maybe pingus can explain [17:50:53] Nelson Ko: But the groups identification problem is still problematic [17:51:25] Roberto LÃ³pez: actually in aulawiki you have a whole new table for ws [17:51:29] â€¦ this is the way you solve it [17:51:42] Xavi: yes, several tables [17:51:49] Roberto LÃ³pez: that's the point [17:52:05] â€¦ we can do magic if you let us create a table ;-) [17:52:13] â€¦ but it's better not to touch too much [17:52:22] Xavi: roberto, create the tables you need! I would say [17:52:27] Jonny Bradley: all rootCategoryId does is save a few queries (maybe a lot) but structurally it's the same i think [17:52:27] Roberto LÃ³pez: no no [17:52:40] Aldo BG: dont worry [17:52:44] â€¦ but you mean [17:52:48] â€¦ to create another table? [17:52:50] Xavi: "not to touch too much" ? Touch as much as needed in order to make it work properly and better than before, I would say [17:53:15] Roberto LÃ³pez: what the other coders think? [17:53:21] Xavi: "create anothter table": if needed yes. If just one extra field, ok. But if needed, go ahead [17:53:25] Louis-Philippe Huberdeau: creating a separate system comes with a whole chunk of new problems [17:53:29] Nelson Ko: i don't think we should create new tables unless it is *really* needed. I agree with Roberto [17:53:39] Aldo BG: I think we can solve this [17:53:43] â€¦ without creating a new table [17:53:47] MangaPower: me too [17:53:47] Aldo BG: only we need [17:53:48] Roberto LÃ³pez: may I talk? [17:53:51] Aldo BG: to expends categories [17:53:51] MangaPower: I agree with Nelson [17:53:53] Aldo BG: expand [17:53:53] MangaPower: yeah [17:53:57] Xavi: ok, ok, whatever is needed to avoid the performance when the system have many workspaces [17:53:58] Jonny Bradley: if we have a new table we can store lots more stuff like prefix, postfix, delimiter etc [17:54:32] Roberto LÃ³pez: root [17:54:33] Xavi: s/performance/performance issues [17:54:57] Roberto LÃ³pez: right, ben [17:55:14] Xavi: lp: creating a new table doesn't mean creating a separate system, isn't it? (I'm not a coder, you know) [17:55:21] â€¦ s/lp/lph [17:55:22] Nelson Ko: All workspaces are child (or grandchild) categories of the workspace container category [17:55:43] MangaPower: right Nelson! ;) [17:55:48] Xavi: Nelson ko: yes [17:55:54] MangaPower: 1+ for you [17:56:33] giancapino: you mean something like the tiki_workspaces table of aulawiki? [17:57:37] Louis-Philippe Huberdeau: I only got half the conversation and I don't really know what the issues are [17:57:49] Roberto LÃ³pez: one thing more: aualwiki has performance problems [17:57:52] â€¦ dont' forget this [17:58:00] â€¦ we should look into this [17:58:01] Marc Laporte: pingus: you there? [17:58:10] Roberto LÃ³pez: pingus, please come in [17:58:31] Aldo BG: lp [17:58:37] Roberto LÃ³pez: y [17:58:37] giancapino: yes, but no voice [17:58:55] Aldo BG: who is talking? marc? [17:58:58] Xavi: yes [17:59:05] Aldo BG: ok [17:59:10] Xavi: we should stop the audio and start again with the host one of us [17:59:11] Roberto LÃ³pez: +100 [17:59:21] Xavi: so that we can add people who are not in, like giancapino [17:59:49] Jonny Bradley: i'm hoping we can loose quite a lot of old tables (all the galaxia ones for instance? (devil) ) and what does tiki_zones do? (for instance) [17:59:55] Roberto LÃ³pez: marc, i think this too [17:59:59] giancapino: the tiki_workspaces table contained the parentId [18:00:37] â€¦ plus various other fields like 'description, isuserws,startdate/enddate/hide etc. [18:01:07] Roberto LÃ³pez: yes xavi [18:01:09] MangaPower: ok I'll do it [18:01:15] Roberto LÃ³pez: ok [18:01:16] â€¦ xavi [18:01:19] â€¦ you the host [18:01:27] â€¦ ok [18:01:37] Louis-Philippe Huberdeau: what do you want to be stored in tiki_workspaces? [18:02:02] Roberto LÃ³pez: ok [18:02:04] MangaPower: ok [18:02:05] sylvie-greverend: coffee time [18:02:12] Marc Laporte: hahahahha [18:02:13] Roberto LÃ³pez: bye [18:03:58] Xavi: ringing again [18:04:00] â€¦ to all of you [18:05:04] Aldo BG: please mute your mics [18:05:09] â€¦ if you dont have in mind to talk [18:05:17] â€¦ there are too much noise [18:05:36] Marc Laporte: yes, but sound is not as good as before [18:05:42] Roberto LÃ³pez: i can't hear [18:05:47] Nelson Ko: the sound is bad for me too [18:05:50] MangaPower: I can [18:05:58] sylvie-greverend: sound is hased for me [18:06:05] â€¦ hashed [18:06:14] MangaPower: I could try to make it [18:06:20] Marc Laporte: yes, i will [18:06:21] Aldo BG: ok [18:06:26] â€¦ let's give a try benji [18:06:32] Roberto LÃ³pez: i don't hear [18:06:38] MangaPower: ok [18:06:39] Xavi: ok, ben, give it a try [18:06:40] MangaPower: starting... [18:06:58] Xavi: I had to paly with voice codecs weeks ago, and I might miss some voice codec [18:07:07] â€¦ yes, I can hear [18:07:40] Nelson Ko: can you mute yourself if you are not speaking? [18:08:02] Xavi: ben, can you add giancarlo? [18:08:05] Roberto LÃ³pez: ben mutes your mic [18:08:07] Jonny Bradley: back [18:08:11] MangaPower: aldo became the host! [18:08:13] Aldo BG: i am the host [18:08:19] â€¦ so im going to add him [18:08:19] Roberto LÃ³pez: add pingus please [18:08:20] MangaPower: aldo, I'll do it [18:08:22] Xavi: aldo, add giancapino, please [18:08:26] â€¦ he is on skype right now [18:08:35] Louis-Philippe Huberdeau: this is not working, please write the options down and email me [18:08:37] Aldo BG: ok [18:08:48] â€¦ im going to add him [18:08:51] * Louis-Philippe Huberdeau ha abandonado este chat. [18:08:53] Aldo BG: because i forgot [18:08:59] â€¦ to do it before [18:09:04] Jonny Bradley: i'm ready to record - i suggest we start with a recap of where we got to [18:09:11] Roberto LÃ³pez: +1 [18:09:12] Aldo BG: ok [18:09:18] Xavi: +1 [18:09:21] Aldo BG: plz xavi you are the leading guy [18:09:33] â€¦ im adding [18:09:35] â€¦ him [18:09:39] Roberto LÃ³pez: i only see ben, nelson, gary and xavi [18:10:11] sylvie-greverend: you are the hoster mac [18:10:15] â€¦ marc [18:10:21] Jonny Bradley: i see 10 people (not including "the other" Sylvie ;) [18:10:45] Roberto LÃ³pez: pingus [18:10:46] MangaPower: Marc, can u add me? [18:10:47] Roberto LÃ³pez: ?Â¿ [18:10:53] sylvie-greverend: jonny you are not in the same chat than me... [18:11:05] Jonny Bradley: i'm in this one - is there another? [18:11:07] Roberto LÃ³pez: am I in the right chat? [18:11:09] â€¦ :-) [18:11:17] â€¦ jijijiji [18:11:19] Xavi: I hope so [18:11:27] sylvie-greverend: jonny I do not see you in the audio [18:11:41] Jonny Bradley: no, i haven't got a call yet [18:11:43] Roberto LÃ³pez: ben is no here [18:11:45] Jonny Bradley: just chat [18:11:59] Roberto LÃ³pez: where is jonny? [18:12:00] MangaPower: ... [18:12:07] Jonny Bradley: so it's a very quiet recording so far... [18:12:13] Aldo BG: jonny [18:12:18] â€¦ marc is the leader [18:12:20] â€¦ right now [18:12:29] â€¦ he is going to add you [18:12:34] Jonny Bradley: lovely [18:12:41] MangaPower: I need to be added too [18:13:23] Xavi: jonny? [18:13:31] Aldo BG: manga power? [18:13:32] Jonny Bradley: still no call :( [18:13:38] Aldo BG: benji are u there? [18:13:50] Roberto LÃ³pez: ok [18:13:55] MangaPower: nope [18:14:00] â€¦ me too [18:14:04] Aldo BG: marc [18:14:04] Jonny Bradley: i tihnk if i try and call in i'll start another one [18:14:06] Xavi: marc will try again [18:14:07] Aldo BG: is going to call again [18:14:11] Xavi: with all of us [18:15:06] â€¦ mlp is gone? [18:15:13] Jonny Bradley: yup [18:15:45] Aldo BG: if you want i can try again [18:16:57] Xavi: also, are you using GNU/Linux? if so, then, we'd better let someone with newer version of skype do it [18:17:13] Aldo BG: in my case im using mac [18:17:21] â€¦ but we can give a try again [18:17:28] Xavi: I'm using skype for ubuntu (latest, I think) and it seemed that voice was not good for all [18:17:41] Roberto LÃ³pez: i ubuntu too [18:17:45] Aldo BG: ok [18:17:49] â€¦ im going [18:17:54] â€¦ to try again [18:18:14] Xavi: giancarlo? [18:18:39] sylvie-greverend: ok for me [18:19:01] Jonny Bradley: who's got the light sabre? [18:19:07] Xavi: ? [18:19:11] MangaPower: haahah [18:19:11] Roberto LÃ³pez: jajajajaja [18:19:17] Xavi: giancarlo/pingus? can you hear ? [18:19:18] Aldo BG: lol [18:19:20] Roberto LÃ³pez: star wars [18:19:38] â€¦ welcome jb [18:19:41] â€¦ wait for marc [18:19:56] â€¦ canada is too far [18:20:06] Nelson Ko: is anyone calling me? [18:20:15] Roberto LÃ³pez: invite nelson [18:20:19] Aldo BG: yea im [18:20:26] Jonny Bradley: Marc's back [18:20:55] Aldo BG: ok [18:20:58] â€¦ i dont now [18:21:03] â€¦ how to add one to the conversation [18:21:07] â€¦ i mean [18:21:11] â€¦ i see start conference call [18:21:17] â€¦ but ... this is for starting [18:21:21] â€¦ new one [18:21:32] Jonny Bradley: look for "add to conference call..." [18:21:42] Aldo BG: ok [18:21:46] MangaPower: Ok, let me do it [18:21:58] Jonny Bradley: the host has to do it [18:22:05] MangaPower: last time I don't know why I didn't became the host, but now I'll do it [18:22:08] Jonny Bradley: go to the contacts window & right click [18:22:28] MangaPower: let me start the conference and Ill be able to do it [18:22:31] Roberto LÃ³pez: Some points: 1-new field for categories? 2-should we modify the categ perms? 3-special tables for ws? or a better new design in modules and things tiki already has? [18:22:37] â€¦ to recap [18:22:40] MangaPower: ok [18:23:23] Xavi: marc, we need giancapino and nelson [18:23:38] Jonny Bradley: we have 2 chats too...? [18:23:45] sylvie-greverend: ok so ,... I agre to put the workspaces in the categ table like this withnhave the tree structure for WS + an additional column for rootCategId [18:24:09] Nelson Ko: +1 sylvie [18:24:34] Roberto LÃ³pez: +1 [18:24:40] sylvie-greverend: how will we do the naming dispatch... [18:24:41] Aldo BG: i heard you [18:24:47] sylvie-greverend: group has no ID... [18:24:56] Roberto LÃ³pez: pingus is not in [18:25:01] â€¦ ok [18:25:23] â€¦ Some points: 1-new field for categories? 2-should we modify the categ perms? 3-special tables for ws? or a better new design in modules and things tiki already has? [18:25:33] Jonny Bradley: should wew clost this one? [18:25:36] â€¦ close [18:25:39] Roberto LÃ³pez: ok [18:25:53] * Jonny Bradley ha abandonado este chat. [18:26:02] * Marc Laporte ha agregado a gary.cunningham-lee a este chat [18:26:05] Xavi: we should use this chat [18:26:16] â€¦ called "Audioconference + chat on worksapce" [18:26:32] * Aldo BG ha agregado a jb4299 a este chat [18:27:11] giancapino: ok, the THIS is the last chatroom? [18:27:19] Aldo BG: this is the original one [18:27:34] Jonny Bradley: ok, i'm here too - but no audio [18:27:43] Roberto LÃ³pez: jajajaja [18:27:51] Nelson Ko: I agree with what sylvie said about the need to make sure we use groupId vs groupName [18:28:05] â€¦ seems necessary for any future robustness.... [18:28:16] Marc Laporte: yes, sylvie, we need to clean up everywhere to use IDs instead of names [18:28:23] Roberto LÃ³pez: what do you mean nelson? [18:28:41] sylvie-greverend: if everything is known by id _ after it should be easy to interpret the names... [18:29:04] Aldo BG: ok but you mean [18:29:12] Roberto LÃ³pez: echo echo [18:29:13] Aldo BG: functions where you ask for the id [18:29:16] â€¦ not for the name? [18:29:22] â€¦ or i'm missing something [18:29:38] Nelson Ko: I'll explain this is a while [18:29:40] sylvie-greverend: yes to go from name to ws1:name and back [18:29:41] Nelson Ko: Focus on Xavi first [18:29:52] Aldo BG: ok [18:30:45] Roberto LÃ³pez: correct! [18:30:54] Aldo BG: we can vote [18:31:37] sylvie-greverend: +1 for xavi [18:31:47] Roberto LÃ³pez: visca el barsa [18:31:47] Xavi: anybody else to add things? [18:32:04] sylvie-greverend: +1 for aldo [18:32:07] MangaPower: yeah, no need for a new table [18:32:12] Nelson Ko: agree ^ [18:32:19] Roberto LÃ³pez: no new table, new fields are enough [18:32:29] MangaPower: yeah [18:32:40] â€¦ currently, for WS, just one is enough [18:32:43] Roberto LÃ³pez: ask for more, you have the coders here ;-) [18:32:59] sylvie-greverend: :-) [18:33:43] Nelson Ko: let's first discuss what might be needed in this new table [18:33:46] â€¦ shall we? [18:34:20] MangaPower: what would be necessary? [18:34:30] â€¦ well, it would be similar to categories [18:35:21] â€¦ wsId, wsName, description, parentId, hits [18:35:25] sylvie-greverend: so you will create ws1:categ [18:35:38] â€¦ like ws1:group [18:35:48] Aldo BG: +1 to sylvie [18:35:49] MangaPower: better said, if there were a tiki_workspaces table, it would look exactly to tiki_categories [18:36:48] Roberto LÃ³pez: yes [18:37:04] sylvie-greverend: yes [18:37:48] MangaPower: when u want to simply categorize [18:38:28] Roberto LÃ³pez: sure [18:39:36] giancapino: Guys. Can we open a dedicated forum, where we can have minutes to analyse, sewach funcion names and tables fields etc? [18:40:15] Aldo BG: oh shit [18:40:17] â€¦ i lost the cal [18:40:19] â€¦ call [18:40:31] Roberto LÃ³pez: id [18:40:30] Marc Laporte: we need organic groups [18:40:38] Roberto LÃ³pez: +1000 [18:40:46] Aldo BG: are u speaking? [18:40:47] Roberto LÃ³pez: organic ws is waht we need [18:40:48] Aldo BG: i lost the call [18:40:56] â€¦ yeah but organic workspaces [18:41:00] â€¦ can be done with profiles [18:41:03] â€¦ inmo [18:41:05] â€¦ imho [18:41:18] Roberto LÃ³pez: y [18:41:21] MangaPower: yea [18:41:46] Xavi: "to edit the group"? [18:41:53] sylvie-greverend: CAN YOU REPEAT? [18:41:57] â€¦ soory caps [18:42:06] Xavi: I've lost the call [18:42:07] â€¦ Â¿? [18:42:16] Marc Laporte: yes, we need to add more features to groups, [18:42:22] Xavi: is it only mewho lost the call? [18:42:23] sylvie-greverend: we need a groupId [18:43:14] Roberto LÃ³pez: ws1::physics [18:43:32] â€¦ you need a group id [18:43:27] giancapino: Don't we need to make also groups as objects, with their objectperms? [18:44:04] Aldo BG: oh shit [18:44:06] â€¦ i lost again the call [18:44:08] â€¦ :( [18:44:10] giancapino: So we can 'categorize' some groups who belong to the categories/workspaces? [18:44:11] sylvie-greverend: but it will be a general problem -as page name too [18:44:20] Roberto LÃ³pez: jijiji [18:44:36] Aldo BG: plz marc [18:44:50] â€¦ Â¿? [18:44:58] â€¦ arg [18:45:36] â€¦ i missed like two minutes [18:45:43] Roberto LÃ³pez: yes [18:45:49] Xavi: MArc, can you add aldo and me to the call again, please? [18:45:49] Roberto LÃ³pez: jijiji [18:45:57] Aldo BG: im in the call [18:46:02] Xavi: I don't know why I seem to have been kicked out... [18:46:17] Roberto LÃ³pez: don't worry [18:46:20] sylvie-greverend: so group::WS1 or Ws1::group? [18:46:23] Roberto LÃ³pez: jajajaja [18:46:24] Xavi: bl***dy skype [18:46:20] giancapino: Please, LET'S OPEN A DEDICATED FORUM on this subject! [18:46:28] sylvie-greverend: :-) [18:46:29] Roberto LÃ³pez: you not going to be paid [18:46:30] â€¦ anymore [18:46:33] â€¦ bad news [18:47:08] Nelson Ko: cut off [18:47:08] MangaPower: I lost nelson! [18:47:09] sylvie-greverend: I lost the call [18:47:14] Jonny Bradley: ooh? everyone's gone? [18:47:18] Roberto LÃ³pez: I lost my wallet [18:47:19] MangaPower: noooo we lost everyone [18:47:18] gary.cunningham-lee: I'm off too. [18:47:20] Aldo BG: im in [18:47:23] â€¦ im a survivor [18:47:27] Jonny Bradley: :) [18:47:28] gary.cunningham-lee: :-) [18:47:30] Xavi: skype has its own life ;-) [18:47:35] MangaPower: ok [18:47:49] Xavi: and selecting people to be kicked off from time to time at his(her?) will [18:48:00] sylvie-greverend: his will [18:48:04] Xavi: :-) [18:48:13] â€¦ :-D his/her [18:48:32] giancapino: hi [18:48:37] MangaPower: i'm here [18:48:40] Xavi: hi again [18:48:41] MangaPower: :D [18:49:30] Xavi: +1 marc : realtime communication [18:49:32] Jonny Bradley: i will investigate another system for next time (teamspeak.com) [18:49:34] Roberto LÃ³pez: yes [18:49:39] Xavi: jonny: +1 [18:49:50] Jonny Bradley: not sure if it's FLOSS tho [18:49:55] Nelson Ko: btw [off-topic] fred from bigbluebutton: we're releasing a new version at the end of this week that has desktop sharing ... how about I set you up with an accont on our demo server (separate from others) early next week [18:49:57] Xavi: (2) Who is working (or willing to work) on what? (3) What are the priorities? *(4) What is going to change in the tiki perms and categories (general ideas)?* [18:50:51] â€¦ there were some other points for this meeting (2), (3) and (4, if agreed) [18:50:57] giancapino: I feel embarassed at having to say +1 or -1 here. One needs time to analyse. Let's get a forum [18:51:26] Xavi: conversation is still on giancapino [18:51:39] â€¦ after that, no problem for me to use a forum [18:51:50] sylvie-greverend: ok for me too [18:52:04] Roberto LÃ³pez: interacts [18:54:34] giancapino: I still have to understand the design of the new workspaces. I will cooperate of course. Priority for me is to get a clear idea. [18:55:14] Aldo BG: .... [18:55:24] â€¦ again kicked out [18:56:20] Marc Laporte: all 1000+ preferences could be overriden per workspace [18:56:34] Aldo BG: with profiles [18:56:36] Marc Laporte: yes, gary, ideally [18:56:40] Aldo BG: it can be possible do it [18:56:47] â€¦ even we can generate automatic profiles [18:57:03] â€¦ generated by gui interface or something like that [18:58:09] Marc Laporte: yes, but what if we want workspace admin to manage? [18:58:24] â€¦ (these modules) [18:58:39] â€¦ but not control overall [18:58:47] Roberto LÃ³pez: you check firsr your local preferences [18:58:52] Aldo BG: yes [18:59:14] Xavi: aulawiki mod has another set of modules... [18:59:22] â€¦ all the ones starting by workspaces_... [18:59:30] â€¦ managed by the workspace admin , afaik [18:59:52] â€¦ yes, nelson [19:00:01] â€¦ you set them for a WS type [19:00:09] â€¦ yes, and db tables for that, in aulawiki [19:01:36] Roberto LÃ³pez: yes [19:01:44] â€¦ we should conisder this latter [19:01:48] â€¦ i agree [19:02:47] sylvie-greverend: if somebody can add me to the sound thx [19:02:54] MangaPower: nothing special [19:03:04] â€¦ I'm added in the sound [19:06:08] sylvie-greverend: a lot of echo..... [19:06:43] Roberto LÃ³pez: we create new perms [19:06:44] â€¦ http://dev.tikiwiki.org/workspace#New_permission_for_WS_management [19:06:45] MangaPower: there are two kind of permissions [19:06:50] Roberto LÃ³pez: have look here [19:06:51] MangaPower: the global ones [19:06:55] â€¦ and the local to ws [19:07:02] gary.cunningham-lee: ah, I got dropped [19:08:23] Xavi: nelson says: tiki has no "group leader" right now [19:08:33] Aldo BG: i don't heard very well [19:08:33] Xavi: group leader funcionality [19:08:34] MangaPower: yah [19:08:35] Aldo BG: :s [19:08:40] Roberto LÃ³pez: yeah [19:08:53] MangaPower: with workspaces there will be a "group leader" functionality [19:08:54] Nelson Ko: 2 options: [19:09:16] Roberto LÃ³pez: but now we create new perms for dealing with this [19:09:16] Nelson Ko: 1) develop workspaces straight off: so to get group leader functionaloty, you need to use workspaces [19:09:23] Roberto LÃ³pez: am I wrong? [19:09:36] Nelson Ko: 2) develop lower-level group leader functionaloty, then build workspaces on top of that [19:09:41] Roberto LÃ³pez: ok [19:09:45] â€¦ i understand [19:09:56] Aldo BG: ok [19:10:02] â€¦ yeah [19:10:03] Nelson Ko: do you see the difference between these 2 approaches? [19:10:05] MangaPower: currently what we are doing is [19:10:20] Aldo BG: well [19:10:37] Xavi: nelson, that was solved by jreyes in aulawiki by adding two subgroups for each ws: one ws-owner/manager, and ws-participants [19:10:39] â€¦ kind of [19:10:49] â€¦ fyi [19:10:49] MangaPower: when u create a ws, you add (or create) a group and give to this group the "leader" functionality [19:10:58] Nelson Ko: xavi: that is an ugly solution [19:11:06] Roberto LÃ³pez: yes [19:11:06] Xavi: ok, nelson [19:11:19] Aldo BG: well [19:11:19] Xavi: it was just a "fyi" :-) [19:11:24] Marc Laporte: anybody missing? [19:11:27] Aldo BG: when we create a workspace [19:11:39] â€¦ there are a special group or special groups [19:11:50] MangaPower: I already told it [19:11:50] Aldo BG: that acts as leaders [19:11:52] â€¦ ok [19:11:54] â€¦ sorry [19:11:58] â€¦ i didn't see that [19:11:59] MangaPower: when u create a ws, you add (or create) a group and give to this group the "leader" functionality [19:12:39] giancapino: with aulawiki there can be two non-admins functions: Workarea-admin(can admin the whole ws tree starting at one ws down) and single-ws-resource manager [19:13:29] Marc Laporte: everyone: i have to go now [19:13:35] MangaPower: ohhh [19:13:34] giancapino: plus the generic ws-member [19:14:39] MangaPower: with the new implementation you can not only globaly admin the ws but locally to every WS and with different lvls of managements [19:15:18] â€¦ I will write down a hierachy of admins levels that a group can have in a WS [19:15:24] â€¦ top-down [19:15:47] gary.cunningham-lee: (Good night everybody - 2am in Japan) and great work so far!) [19:16:01] Xavi: g'night gary, thanks for staying up late night [19:16:08] â€¦ for the audio confernce [19:16:12] MangaPower: adminws admingroups+adminperms admingroups+adminobjects adminperms+adminobjects admingroups adminperms adminobjects view [19:16:26] sylvie-greverend: good night gary [19:16:45] â€¦ y [19:17:51] Roberto LÃ³pez: do you think we should continue in the way we are? [19:17:59] â€¦ al least until the next tikifest [19:17:59] giancapino: Another problem I see is the need, maybe only in some cases, for a 'ownership' on certain resources. If a resource belongs to two categories/ws, who can remove it? Can be resources be non-removable? [19:19:23] Xavi: Mmmm, maybe we could continue discussion through the devel list, whatever is needed, before TikiFEstBarcelona [19:19:34] Roberto LÃ³pez: ok [19:19:37] â€¦ good idea [19:19:44] Nelson Ko: we could have a call at the mini tiki fest montreal [19:19:56] Xavi: so that gianpino can also follow there... [19:19:59] Nelson Ko: I think (speaking for Marc...) [19:19:59] Xavi: and nelson, good idea [19:20:01] MangaPower: who is the host? [19:20:14] Aldo BG: mee [19:20:23] MangaPower: add me [19:20:29] â€¦ to the converstation [19:20:35] Aldo BG: i don't know how [19:20:38] â€¦ im searching [19:20:40] MangaPower: ... [19:21:10] â€¦ just right click on my name and look for something that says "add" [19:21:18] Aldo BG: i no have that option [19:21:20] â€¦ Â¬Â¬ [19:21:20] Jonny Bradley: back - my skype fell over [19:21:33] MangaPower: shit [19:21:44] giancapino: I read, you planned more detailed perms than tiki_p_admin_ws and tiki_p_ws_resource. [19:23:01] MangaPower: that's right [19:23:16] Aldo BG: mangapower [19:23:19] â€¦ i added you [19:23:21] â€¦ but ... [19:23:58] MangaPower: you can read all of it in http://dev.tikiwiki.org/workspace#New_permission_for_WS_management [19:24:42] â€¦ In fact, we have already added those perms in our experimental branch [19:24:47] Roberto LÃ³pez: I don't hear [19:25:05] giancapino: OK, I mean, at the start we were willing to constrain everything inside 3 category perms... [19:25:19] MangaPower: yeah [19:25:33] â€¦ but now we have extra perms related ONLY to WS [19:25:38] sylvie-greverend: in trunk? or experimental branch? [19:25:47] MangaPower: no need to have more category permissions [19:25:52] sylvie-greverend: yes? [19:26:22] â€¦ yes because experimental has the aulawiki? [19:26:42] MangaPower: until now we haven't found any inconvenients using the current perms and only adding ws perms [19:26:42] sylvie-greverend: ah! [19:27:01] Roberto LÃ³pez: http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki/branches/experimental/ws/ [19:27:04] â€¦ correct [19:27:09] MangaPower: that's it [19:27:10] Roberto LÃ³pez: we have our own [19:27:15] â€¦ aulawiki is in mods [19:27:17] MangaPower: yep [19:27:24] giancapino: The paragraph on WS perms doesn't state clearly which ones will be used as object perms on the workspace, and which ones as global tiki-wide perms.. [19:27:43] sylvie-greverend: ok =1 [19:27:47] â€¦ +1 [19:28:09] MangaPower: ok [19:28:20] â€¦ admin, addWS, removeWS = global [19:28:26] giancapino: Because a local ws-admin or ws-resource-manager will have only objectperms from the ws/category object, 0 global perms for his group.. [19:29:13] MangaPower: adminws,adminresources,adminperms,admingroups,view as object perm on a WS [19:29:45] giancapino: admingroups ! [19:29:46] MangaPower: if u have adminws = to have admingroups,adminperms and adminresources [19:29:46] sylvie-greverend: for delete - you can use recursion in database - it is only one time.... [19:30:35] giancapino: admingroups with 0 global perms. That's what I war writing about lately [19:31:18] MangaPower: we will aply admingroups only as objectPerm [19:31:21] â€¦ no need to be global [19:31:56] â€¦ if you have tiki_p_ws_admin then you can admingroups globaly [19:32:07] giancapino: so groups must become object that grant their admingroup perms to that ws group. [19:32:29] Nelson Ko: one se [19:32:31] MangaPower: I don't get what you're trying to say [19:32:59] â€¦ sorry if don't talk, besides, I'm not hearing you guys [19:33:35] Roberto LÃ³pez: may I enter? [19:33:51] sylvie-greverend: welcome [19:34:07] Roberto LÃ³pez: i don't hear [19:34:12] MangaPower: pingus: when a group is given access to a ws, then in tiki_objectsperms there will be an enty with the groupName, the WS Id and a perm called "tiki_p_ws_view" [19:34:13] Aldo BG: do you heard me? [19:34:15] â€¦ im talking [19:34:16] â€¦ but ... [19:34:25] â€¦ im talking [19:34:27] â€¦ shit [19:34:27] Xavi: Aldo, I can't not hear [19:34:28] Roberto LÃ³pez: if you are preparing a party I ant to know [19:34:34] Aldo BG: ok [19:34:36] Nelson Ko: MangaPower: that's right [19:34:36] Xavi: jonny and sylvie either [19:34:41] Aldo BG: :s [19:34:43] MangaPower: well, if i'm not included in the audio, it'll be a little hard to hear you... [19:34:46] Aldo BG: i dont want to close [19:34:49] sylvie-greverend: technology is not ready.... [19:34:51] Nelson Ko: MangaPower: all this basic stuff you can go ahead and implement first [19:34:53] Jonny Bradley: if we're going to publish this chat somewhere we should watch our language (please) [19:34:53] Aldo BG: the the conversation [19:34:58] â€¦ because all of you [19:35:07] â€¦ can listen each others [19:35:07] â€¦ right? [19:35:15] Roberto LÃ³pez: +1 nelson +1 ben [19:35:20] â€¦ i'm out the conference [19:35:21] sylvie-greverend: if somebody wants to implemetn the categ perms... [19:35:24] Roberto LÃ³pez: invite me please [19:35:25] Aldo BG: ok [19:35:28] â€¦ well please [19:35:33] MangaPower: Nelson: 1+ for you [19:35:36] Aldo BG: what was your [19:35:38] â€¦ question? [19:35:39] Nelson Ko: sylvie-greverend: exactly what about categ perms need implementing? [19:35:51] giancapino: to complete the stuff, I think we must be able to 'categorize' some (not all) groups, so that these become workspace groups, and grant objectpermission to addusers/be_included/removed etc [19:35:53] Xavi: aldo, can you add the other people again to the audio? [19:35:58] â€¦ or recall again? [19:35:58] Aldo BG: im trying [19:36:15] sylvie-greverend: we need to change the tiki_p_view_categorized to the all set of perms ... by itself it is quite a job [19:36:17] MangaPower: pingus: no need to categorize groups [19:36:36] â€¦ just give them the "tiki_p_ws_view" permission for a X WS [19:36:37] Roberto LÃ³pez: +1 silvieg [19:36:45] â€¦ we talked about this change [19:36:53] MangaPower: it's easier than categorizing a group [19:37:29] â€¦ let me try to do the call [19:37:38] â€¦ I did it before but didn't work [19:37:52] giancapino: granting object perms of a resource to a group, is not the same as including a group into a group. [19:38:12] Aldo BG: benji [19:38:18] â€¦ im adding you to the audio [19:38:27] MangaPower: ok [19:38:31] â€¦ come, asap [19:38:39] Aldo BG: well [19:38:42] MangaPower: :P [19:38:43] Aldo BG: it is trying [19:38:45] â€¦ to connect you [19:38:49] â€¦ but there is no response [19:38:53] â€¦ as i see [19:39:00] â€¦ shit [19:39:02] â€¦ error [19:39:10] Nelson Ko: sylvie, roberto: I actually don't understand "change the tiki_p_view_categorized to the all set of perms" but we can talk about this after if both of you understand it [19:39:29] MangaPower: right [19:39:44] Roberto LÃ³pez: it's like stending the perms of categories [19:39:52] â€¦ extending [19:40:00] â€¦ categories become tiki objects like wikis [19:40:08] â€¦ so you have the same perms yoou have for a wiki [19:40:25] â€¦ it's what i have in my mind [19:40:33] Nelson Ko: Roberto: that big work [19:40:47] Roberto LÃ³pez: it's what silvieg said ;-) [19:40:51] MangaPower: well, currently categories are treated as objects [19:40:53] Roberto LÃ³pez: i'm not sure whetehr we need this [19:40:59] Nelson Ko: (I know now what sylvie is referring to, early on months ago I had discussed this briefly with SYlvie) [19:41:30] Roberto LÃ³pez: do you have sound? I don't :-( [19:41:37] Nelson Ko: Roberto: well, in my opinion, sylvie's approach will make the "foundation" of workspaces much better [19:41:49] Jonny Bradley: Aldo needs to add you Rober [19:41:50] MangaPower: Rober: until now we didn't come to the conclusion that we need this extension of categories perms [19:42:06] Nelson Ko: Otherwise, you are stuck messing with object perms directly [19:42:18] Xavi: Please, impriove the syummery of the conversation here: [19:42:18] â€¦ http://dev.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=090709+Audioconference+on+WS [19:42:19] Roberto LÃ³pez: right [19:42:20] Nelson Ko: which "works" [19:42:26] â€¦ but clumsy [19:42:47] Roberto LÃ³pez: xavi [19:43:00] Nelson Ko: Roberto: Anyway, it overlaps with the improvement sylvie wants to make onto categories perms [19:43:06] Roberto LÃ³pez: yes [19:43:26] â€¦ maybe next tikifest before barcelona we can talk about this issue [19:43:46] Nelson Ko: I'm sure it'll be discussed at the Montreal mini-tikifest [19:44:18] MangaPower: the permissions issue is really extensive [19:44:41] Roberto LÃ³pez: ok folks [19:44:28] giancapino: But very often you need to have different perms for resources of the same type. You might want a page private and another public and another shared with another workspace. [19:44:55] Roberto LÃ³pez: for me is ok [19:45:36] MangaPower: First we need to get focused in the structure of workspaces (how to add/remove WS, add/remove objects, add/quit groups, list WS, ...) and make it scalable and stable [19:45:42] Nelson Ko: giancapino: the solution for that is possibly to refactor the object perms ao augment (rather than replace) the categ perms (which I think/hope sylvie has a plan for) [19:45:44] MangaPower: then will come the permissions issue [19:45:56] giancapino: Even if you use categories as a template for creating resources with default perms, you need to be able to change it for any individual resource. With objectperms I suppose, not by creating a new ad-hoc category.. [19:46:06] MangaPower: how to implement and manage the perms in objects,... [19:46:27] â€¦ At this point I agree with giancarlo [19:46:48] â€¦ It's better that objects have their own perms [19:47:00] Nelson Ko: yes, but I think the solution for that is possibly to refactor the object perms ao augment (rather than replace) the categ perms (which I think/hope sylvie has a plan for) [19:48:08] Roberto LÃ³pez: by folks! [19:48:11] sylvie-greverend: I will write a page [19:48:12] â€¦ by [19:48:15] Jonny Bradley: bibi [19:48:17] sylvie-greverend: bye [19:48:17] MangaPower: well, I think I'll leave too [19:48:22] Xavi: ok, guy, see you son in the next audio conference, devel-list and tikifestbarcelona of course! :-) [19:48:24] MangaPower: nice to talk with u guys [19:48:28] Aldo BG: byee [19:48:29] Xavi: yes, see you [19:48:31] MangaPower: bye [19:48:40] Aldo BG: yeah me too [19:48:40] Nelson Ko: thanks sylveie, a page will help :) bye [19:49:26] * Roberto LÃ³pez ha abandonado este chat. [19:49:56] giancapino: By all, let's start a forum please. I'd do it at altervista, but mail (alert) is broken there. [19:50:37] â€¦ ciao a todos [19:51:02] * Jonny Bradley ha abandonado este chat