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20070610SkypeChatlog

previous day

1:03:21 PM mlpvolt says: hello tiki party
1:04:10 PM Xavier de Pedro says: hi mlpvolt....
1:04:19 PM Xavier de Pedro says: I wonder what's going on in Canada...
1:04:38 PM mlpvolt says: i can only vouch for toronto
1:05:02 PM mlpvolt says: we are a semi developed country
1:05:12 PM Xavier de Pedro says: Are you in Toronto?
1:05:18 PM mlpvolt says: yes
1:05:33 PM Xavier de Pedro says: I didn't know... so many Canadian :-)
1:05:42 PM mlpvolt says: i just tuned in
1:05:59 PM Xavier de Pedro says: btw, do you have the link to the 1.6 html documentation?
1:06:19 PM Xavier de Pedro says: I know there is some where, but can't find it.... (to use it instead of pdf to grab content from there...)
1:06:23 PM mlpvolt says: is it linkde from doc.tiki?
1:06:34 PM Xavier de Pedro says: I don't think so...
1:06:39 PM Xavier de Pedro says: or at least I couldn't find it
1:07:03 PM mlpvolt says: i don't have it on my laptop
1:07:10 PM mlpvolt says: or i woulde upload it
1:07:14 PM Xavier de Pedro says: ok, no worries.
1:07:37 PM Xavier de Pedro says: I keep working on http://tiki.org/TikiProfilesNGO
1:08:23 PM mlpvolt says: good idea - i'm trying to start a profile collection
1:08:41 PM mlpvolt says: what would be your wishlist for next tiki release?
1:09:06 PM Xavier de Pedro says: 1.10 :-)
1:09:38 PM mlpvolt says: i'm hoping for 2 things
1:09:58 PM mlpvolt says: a) a tiki equilvalent of drupal's CCK
1:10:04 PM mlpvolt says: "content contruction kit"
1:10:39 PM mlpvolt says: and an ovrehaul of some admin stuff
1:11:22 PM mlpvolt says: like combining categories admin with groups admin
1:11:42 PM mlpvolt says: full on "organic groups" i think it has been called
1:11:54 PM Xavier de Pedro says: well, for me: Bitweaver install process included in Tikiwiki (as far as TikiFest198 is concerned)
1:13:31 PM mlpvolt says: there are many nice bitweaver things that could be broght over
1:14:03 PM mlpvolt says: i wonder now that tiki developer community is less fraught with stress
1:14:17 PM mlpvolt says: a bridge could be rebuilt between tiki and BW
1:14:58 PM Xavier de Pedro says: this bridge/joint venture could be lovely (for end users)
1:15:58 PM mlpvolt says: we should send a diplomat!
1:16:46 PM mlpvolt says: you are xavi, right?
1:16:57 PM Xavier de Pedro says: yes, I am...
1:17:02 PM mlpvolt says: you login with another handle as well
1:17:16 PM mlpvolt says: anyway thanks for your work on docs
1:17:40 PM Xavier de Pedro says: thanks... same to you, Michael
1:17:53 PM Xavier de Pedro says: (xavi = xavidp = Xavier de Pedro)
1:17:54 PM mlpvolt says: i still have to write up that interview to send to you on educational wiki.
1:18:16 PM mlpvolt says: ....in progress . . .
1:18:24 PM Xavier de Pedro says: :-)
1:18:52 PM mlpvolt says: we've got a number or great new themes at themes. now
1:19:30 PM mlpvolt says: i would like to start collaborating on them and trading .tpl files
1:19:57 PM mlpvolt says: between them untill we have one new set of .tpl for moreneat 2.0
1:20:20 PM mlpvolt says: do liek the bitweaver boys did
1:21:47 PM Marc Laporte says: polom
1:21:53 PM mlpvolt says: marc!
1:21:53 PM Xavier de Pedro says: hi
1:22:22 PM mlpvolt says: i was just going to ask who's aggregated there in montreal
1:22:45 PM Marc Laporte says: http://de.tiki.org/tikidoc/
1:22:53 PM Marc Laporte says: Nelson & I today
1:23:09 PM Xavier de Pedro says: thanks marc
1:23:22 PM mlpvolt says: i'll update .doc accordingly
1:23:35 PM Xavier de Pedro says: ok
1:24:17 PM Marc Laporte says: http://doc.tiki.org/files/Tiki.pdf
1:26:14 PM Marc Laporte says: please review: http://doc.tiki.org/keywords
1:28:04 PM Marc Laporte says: and make sure all singular & plurals are OK
1:28:20 PM Marc Laporte says: Nelson will review all links in Tiki CVS
1:28:33 PM Marc Laporte says: Mike changed Article to Articles
1:29:58 PM mlpvolt says: i have a mission
1:30:06 PM mlpvolt says: i choose to accept
1:30:08 PM Nelson Ko says: hi mlp, we already have trackers. Can leverage that to do CCK like stuff through new plugin perhaps.
1:30:36 PM mlpvolt says: we already have all the elements of cck i think,
1:30:44 PM mlpvolt says: just need a front end interface
1:30:52 PM Nelson Ko says: which is a wiki plugin
1:30:55 PM mlpvolt says: the same for organic groups.
1:31:07 PM mlpvolt says: although . . .
1:31:19 PM Nelson Ko says: organic groups is a little more complicated
1:31:30 PM mlpvolt says: the one thing we don't have is "new page inherits permissions"
1:31:32 PM Nelson Ko says: because there are multiple options for impleentation
1:31:49 PM Marc Laporte added sylvie-g to this chat
1:32:03 PM mlpvolt says: hi sylvie
1:32:26 PM mlpvolt says: i was just going to say how lovely it would be to have the "new page inherits permissions"
1:32:39 PM mlpvolt says: i would put up a bounty for that for sure.
1:32:52 PM Nelson Ko says: new page inherits perms needs to take care of indiv page perms, category perms? It needs to be thought through
1:32:57 PM Xavier de Pedro says: mlpvolt: isn't it working in 1.10 in structures?
1:33:17 PM mlpvolt says: ?? (has no idea)
1:33:23 PM Nelson Ko says: new page within structures now inherits categories.
1:33:38 PM mlpvolt says: thats a pretty good start
1:33:43 PM Xavier de Pedro says: (I haven't tried myself, but I thought I read somebody did it...)... Maybe I was wrong
1:33:44 PM mlpvolt says: let me be explicit
1:33:52 PM Nelson Ko says: yes i did it
1:34:00 PM mlpvolt says: new page must have a 1st backlink
1:34:34 PM mlpvolt says: that backlink has a category, and maybe individual permissions applied
1:34:38 PM Nelson Ko says: but right now, it only inherits cats if you create the new page from the add page from within the structure. (and not through the edit page module).
1:35:04 PM Nelson Ko says: mpl, please elaborate
1:35:26 PM Xavier de Pedro says: well, at least this is working within workspaces.... (for sure, but that's a Mod right now, as you all know)
1:35:40 PM mlpvolt says: if organic groups is on, new page should copy the perms and categories from "parent" = 1st backlink
1:37:25 PM mlpvolt says: the end user story is "what starts in my private section (assigned to group) in my private section" - automatically
1:37:54 PM Nelson Ko says: how does the backlink fit into this?
1:37:54 PM mlpvolt says: sorry what starts private stays private
1:38:18 PM mlpvolt says: 1st backlink is how I say page that new page was initially linked from
1:38:54 PM Nelson Ko says: so, if the page has not been linked to?
1:38:56 PM mlpvolt says: the "parent" page, though structures are not being used
1:39:11 PM mlpvolt says: orphan pages would escape inheritcance
1:39:25 PM mlpvolt says: which is as it should be :-)
1:40:04 PM mlpvolt says: structures - as you noted - has been dealt with.
1:40:08 PM Nelson Ko says: what if the 1st backlink is other groups' page?
1:40:18 PM Nelson Ko says: or something like that
1:40:33 PM mlpvolt says: if they "created" it they own it
1:40:54 PM mlpvolt says: if permissions are set from the get go, nobody else ever sees it
1:41:15 PM Nelson Ko says: but when you create a page, links are not created automatically....
1:41:36 PM Nelson Ko says: except through the ? link
1:41:47 PM Nelson Ko says: so it only works through the ?
1:41:50 PM mlpvolt says: the one thing that has to be prevented is pages being "captured" (stolen and made private)
1:43:54 PM Nelson Ko says: Is itenough if the "?" be made to "give inheritance" to the page that is being created if the new "inheit perms from page that is created from" feature is on?
1:56:32 PM Nelson Ko says: you still have the problem when two pages (created by people from 2 different groups) both have ? links to a pagename. The first person that uses the ? link "wins" the page name, and the other person may not be able to use it anymore :-(
1:59:27 PM mlpvolt says: im back
2:02:35 PM mlpvolt says: good point. it should go the first backlink, if there is more than one, it should not inherit anything
2:03:53 PM Nelson Ko says: That won't work because users don't know if they are the first backlink or not.
2:05:48 PM Nelson Ko says: they will be totally confused, will they not?
2:06:00 PM mlpvolt says: having new pages accidentally made private to wrong group is not a big problem
2:06:19 PM mlpvolt says: this should be invisible to users
2:06:41 PM mlpvolt says: they should be able to assume that they have a private "space" (category)
2:06:50 PM mlpvolt says: and new pages are automatically added
2:07:39 PM mlpvolt says: "organic groups" means to me that there is a special type of categoryname = groupname
2:08:34 PM mlpvolt says: this is an "organic category"
2:08:55 PM mlpvolt says: other categories don't need to behave this way, maybe best that they dont
2:08:56 PM Nelson Ko says: one of the things I've discovered is taht users tend to reuse common pagenames
2:09:08 PM mlpvolt says: 1 sec
2:09:11 PM Nelson Ko says: they want to reuse them within their private groups
2:14:19 PM mlpvolt says: hmmm
2:15:25 PM mlpvolt says: i had written down once that it would be nice to have a namespace to folders, or namespace to categories capability
2:16:09 PM mlpvolt says: already we use pagename prefixes for "external wiki" feature
2:16:35 PM mlpvolt says: so everybody wants mygroup:todo
2:16:53 PM Dave Thacker says: polom
2:17:00 PM mlpvolt says: hi dave
2:17:47 PM Dave Thacker says: so what are we doing
2:18:03 PM mlpvolt says: discussing "organic groups"
2:18:24 PM mlpvolt says: do you have a scrollback available?
2:19:01 PM mlpvolt says: marc gave me a mission to audit doc:keywords
2:19:05 PM Dave Thacker says: scrolling back now....
2:20:23 PM Dave Thacker says: is everything on text or is there a conference call running?
2:20:41 PM mlpvolt says: nelson an i were dicussing something that was approaching a full blown "wiki farm" - which i'm not sure is needed
2:20:49 PM mlpvolt says: no cc, just here afaik
2:21:02 PM Dave Thacker says: ok,
2:21:18 PM mlpvolt says: i think organic groups is very important though.
2:21:29 PM Dave Thacker says: My wish for 1.10 is a guided initial setup.
2:21:37 PM mlpvolt says: follows from tiki's core competecy i think which is groupware
2:22:11 PM mlpvolt says: an interview type which chooses a profile?
2:22:13 PM mlpvolt says: smart idea
2:22:26 PM Dave Thacker says: yes, an interview!
2:22:56 PM mlpvolt says: i think the profile ought to include some default content
2:23:02 PM mlpvolt says: mostly howtos
2:23:25 PM Dave Thacker says: wow! yes I like that too!
2:24:11 PM mlpvolt says: we could promote the development of tutorials in doc and then ship them with the cvs
2:24:44 PM mlpvolt says: they would be added with the DB install script
2:25:20 PM mlpvolt says: need to help people overcome the "great white wall"
2:25:26 PM mlpvolt says: new tiki no content
2:26:16 PM mlpvolt says: far better to create categories and structures cause they can be easily renamed
2:27:03 PM mlpvolt says: segue . . . .
2:27:33 PM mlpvolt says: on friday i responded to my first user "ticket" on doc:wiki problems
2:27:55 PM mlpvolt says: amazingly enough - if you write it people sometimes do follow instructions.
2:36:02 PM Dave Thacker says: sorry afk for a few mins.
2:40:09 PM mlpvolt says: i think i should rename doc:group to "groups"
2:40:35 PM Marc Laporte says: singular until is hurts
2:40:39 PM Marc Laporte says: a group
2:40:42 PM Marc Laporte says: a permission
2:40:43 PM Marc Laporte says: a user
2:40:45 PM Marc Laporte says: :-)
2:40:55 PM Marc Laporte says: an article
2:41:05 PM Marc Laporte says: a blog
2:41:09 PM Marc Laporte says: the blog feature
2:41:15 PM Marc Laporte says: the article system
2:41:17 PM Marc Laporte says: :-) :-)
2:41:34 PM mlpvolt says: i can live with that but there is rebellion on the eb
2:41:48 PM Nelson Ko says: articles is better
2:41:59 PM mlpvolt says: here they come!
2:42:04 PM mlpvolt says: :-)
2:42:05 PM Marc Laporte says: (LOL)
2:42:13 PM Marc Laporte says: ok, let me face the EB
2:42:18 PM Marc Laporte says: face my execution!
2:42:22 PM mlpvolt says: make your case:
2:42:47 PM Marc Laporte says: don't give the refer to higher authority!
2:42:57 PM Marc Laporte says: just change the doc.tiki.org/keyword
2:43:01 PM Marc Laporte says: all of theme
2:43:03 PM Dave Thacker says: singular is easier to keep consistent
2:43:07 PM Marc Laporte says: all of them
2:43:25 PM Marc Laporte says: Whatever draws consensus
2:43:51 PM Dave Thacker says: yes, once the decision is made, we need to etch it in sand.
2:43:58 PM Marc Laporte says: and whatever people would put in search engine
2:44:08 PM Marc Laporte says: ex: bug tracker
2:44:16 PM Marc Laporte says: people won't put trackers
2:44:26 PM mlpvolt says: question . . .
2:44:57 PM mlpvolt says: is it easier to force a rule on pagenames, or a rule about redirects
2:45:48 PM Dave Thacker says: hmmmm, redirects are a good way to "fix" pagename problems.... What would the redirect rule say?
2:45:55 PM mlpvolt says: if you place a redirect from blogs to blog, marc, it effectively blocks people from renaming pages wrong
2:46:19 PM mlpvolt says: sylvie wrote a great redirect rule for me
2:46:29 PM mlpvolt says: REDIRECT:((pagename)
2:46:44 PM mlpvolt says: i mean exactly
2:46:55 PM mlpvolt says: REDIRECT:pagename
2:47:08 PM mlpvolt says: it works, and it is human readable.
2:47:29 PM Dave Thacker says: so could we say always redirect to singular?
2:47:50 PM Dave Thacker says: or always redirect to valid keyword.
2:48:03 PM mlpvolt says: redirect to whatever the page is called.
2:48:49 PM Dave Thacker says: The base page should match the keyword, right? ( or am I getting ahead of the process)
2:48:59 PM mlpvolt says: i think so
2:49:36 PM mlpvolt says: i just edited homepage and it made a heckuv a lot of sense to me that we have both the old (heriarchical) toc and the alphabetized keyword list
2:49:44 PM mlpvolt says: nice redundancy there
2:49:57 PM Dave Thacker says: yes, they both serve a purpose
2:50:04 PM Marc Laporte sent file "pluralWikiWords.jpg" to members of this chat
2:50:54 PM mlpvolt says: marc - how do i obtain that file exactly?
2:51:12 PM Marc Laporte says: you should have a Skype popup
2:51:22 PM Marc Laporte says: which you need to accept
2:51:29 PM mlpvolt says: so i do . . .
2:52:02 PM Dave Thacker says: I've got the jpg open. Will get called to Sunday dinner in 10 mins or so....
2:52:53 PM mlpvolt says: dave: sunday dinner? where are you living, somewhere in the middle of the atlantic?
2:53:08 PM mlpvolt says: tell them youre not hungry yet
2:53:30 PM Dave Thacker says: that would offend SWMBO greatly.
2:54:16 PM Dave Thacker says: Are you asking how that feature works? I've never tested it.
2:54:39 PM mlpvolt says: marc invokes the evil name: wikiwords
2:56:06 PM mlpvolt says: camelcase must die.
2:56:30 PM mlpvolt says: marc that feature must be destroyed. :0
2:56:41 PM mlpvolt says: failed smiley
2:56:46 PM Dave Thacker says: Do you want to remove the feature? I see no problem with it.
2:56:53 PM Dave Thacker says: removing it.
2:56:57 PM mlpvolt says: i'm venting
2:57:22 PM mlpvolt says: camelcase should be renamed on sight
2:57:27 PM mlpvolt says: is my opinion
2:58:01 PM mlpvolt says: allowing hardspaces is just a distraction.
2:58:26 PM Dave Thacker says: ok CamelCase is one thing, but we're discussing plurals, right? How does that plural feature work?
2:58:36 PM Nelson Ko says: a lot of true blue wiki pages like camelcase, so it could be another option for later version :-)
2:58:52 PM mlpvolt says: oh :-)
2:58:54 PM Nelson Ko says: I am looking at plural/singular code now. give me some time to see how it wors
2:59:11 PM Nelson Ko says: I mean true blue wiki people. lol
2:59:36 PM Marc Laporte says: I think WikiWords should exist to create links but when the texte is shown, it should show without CamelCase (but with hyperlink)
2:59:53 PM Marc Laporte says: so it still looks good when you print the page
3:00:53 PM mlpvolt says: I think the plurals rule is
3:01:33 PM mlpvolt says: if creating version 1 of a wiki page
3:02:00 PM mlpvolt says: and last letter of pagename is "s" or "es"
3:02:17 PM mlpvolt says: and pagename minus s or es exists
3:02:51 PM Dave Thacker says: Ok, I have to go for awhile. If anyone is around when I get back, I'd like a quick lesson in how to build links from forms to help pages. I want the parameters on the login config page clickable in the same way that the features page is.
3:02:59 PM Dave Thacker says: bbl in 60 mins or so....
3:03:32 PM mlpvolt says: promt user that singular exists
3:04:42 PM mlpvolt says: marc, what screenshot software do you use?
3:05:55 PM mlpvolt says: highlight with dropshadow . . . you dog
3:38:13 PM Nelson Ko says: the wikiwords plural thing converts something like MyPages to link to MyPage when content is parsed for display
3:40:04 PM mlpvolt says: ??
3:40:25 PM mlpvolt says: oh i get it
3:40:49 PM Nelson Ko says: so it shows as MyPages in the text, but the link is actually to tiki-admin.php?page=MyPage
3:41:03 PM mlpvolt says: its the mypages (which doesnl;t exist links to mypage which does
3:41:21 PM Nelson Ko says: that is not there at present, but is not too difficult to add I think
3:41:53 PM Marc Laporte says: Mike: FastStone Capture -> screenshot, anotate and email easily
3:42:12 PM mlpvolt says: ok, i got that
3:42:29 PM mlpvolt says: but i just discovered v5 which supports dropshadow
3:42:33 PM Nelson Ko says: It also converts MyStories to link to tiki-index.php?MyStory, MyMistresses to MyMistress, and My Boxes to MyBox
3:42:45 PM Marc Laporte says: (LOL)
3:43:11 PM mlpvolt says: neslon, i still dont get it.
3:43:20 PM mlpvolt says: when you type .... it does ???
3:43:26 PM Nelson Ko says: INo.
3:43:52 PM Nelson Ko says: IIf you have a MyStories in a wiki page, normally it will link to the MyStories page when you click on it.
3:44:12 PM Nelson Ko says: But if this feature is on, it will link to the MyStory page instead, although it remains displayed as MyStories in the text
3:46:59 PM mlpvolt says: so this is an auto-linking feature
3:47:42 PM Nelson Ko says: yes
3:47:51 PM Nelson Ko says: no
3:48:00 PM mlpvolt says: if i add ""see my blog" to a page and page=blog exists then blog becomes a link
3:48:01 PM Nelson Ko says: I mean, WikiWords is an auto linking mechanism
3:48:25 PM mlpvolt says: adding plurals means that blogs also becomes a link
3:48:40 PM Marc Laporte says: Dave you need to modify: templates/tiki-admin-include-wiki.tpl
3:49:04 PM Nelson Ko says: there are 2 ways to "autolink" in Tiki.
3:49:20 PM mlpvolt says: yes Hotwords i htink it is called, right?
3:49:22 PM Nelson Ko says: The 1st is through WikiWords, also known as CamelCase in many wikis
3:49:29 PM Nelson Ko says: The second is through HotWords
3:49:33 PM mlpvolt says: ok three ways
3:49:40 PM Nelson Ko says: What's the third way?
3:49:50 PM mlpvolt says: nevermind
3:49:58 PM mlpvolt says: ")
3:50:11 PM Nelson Ko says: The plural feature that I described only works for WikiWords now
3:50:18 PM mlpvolt says: click
3:50:29 PM Nelson Ko says: For HotWords, you specify the URL for the hotword
3:50:36 PM Nelson Ko says: in admin...Hotwords
3:50:56 PM mlpvolt says: which works without a url if it is a local page i think
3:51:27 PM Nelson Ko says: IWhen I tried to save a hotword with a blank URL, it gives me an error message telling me I need to provide one.
3:51:34 PM mlpvolt says: which - btw is a good ting to do with out keywords list in doc:tiki
3:52:09 PM mlpvolt says: i bet it depends if you have A REWRITE RULE GOING
3:52:21 PM mlpvolt says: caps unintended
3:53:25 PM mlpvolt says: or maybe not.
3:54:15 PM Nelson Ko says: One thing you might have to think about when choosing page names is that I think (I may be wrong) that it is easier for the machine to convert plural to singular than from singlular to plural in English.
3:56:06 PM mlpvolt says: i think you are right but there would be false positives
3:56:17 PM mlpvolt says: i think manually redirecting is the best way to go.
3:57:06 PM mlpvolt says: all doc admins / developers should just have a habit that
3:57:17 PM mlpvolt says: a) they quick edit instead of search on doc two
3:57:46 PM mlpvolt says: b) if the page DNE they create it and put either a soft or hard redirect
3:58:14 PM mlpvolt says: to the appropriate place in teh documentation.
3:58:38 PM mlpvolt says: it doesn't take that long to get a robust ontology going
4:05:38 PM Nelson Ko says: I linke manual redicting as a principle, but I don't like tha page poluution that comes with it, e.g. in search results or page lists
4:05:58 PM Nelson Ko says: thinking of a technical way to reduce this technically that is not too CPU/DB intensive
4:06:27 PM mlpvolt says: hmmm.
4:09:19 PM mlpvolt says: is there a way to do a robots.txt inline in the page?
4:11:53 PM mlpvolt says: redirected pages can also be assigned to a category that only admins can see.
4:12:50 PM Nelson Ko says: and what does that redirection to a category that only admins can see do?
4:14:15 PM mlpvolt says: hmmm. i guess unless redirect works before permissions check (unlikely) it would not work at all.
4:15:05 PM mlpvolt says: if they don't see the page in search results=great
4:15:38 PM mlpvolt says: if they don't arrive at the page which is supposed to be redirecting, but instead get a permissions error
4:15:50 PM mlpvolt says: that is not a very helpful redirect. :-)
4:14:25 PM Dave Thacker says: returns
4:18:04 PM Dave Thacker says: yes, marc I prefer singular. The most important question, based on yesterday's seminar. is "What does the user prefer" or "What will they type in the search engine. Do we have a search history?
4:21:12 PM mlpvolt says: oooh excellent question
4:21:22 PM Dave Thacker says: (coffee) after dinner coffee in hand.
4:22:38 PM Marc Laporte says: http://tiki.org/tiki-search_stats.php
4:22:55 PM Dave Thacker pops it open
4:23:03 PM mlpvolt says: dave, i note you haven't joined the EB meeting thisw month.
4:23:44 PM mlpvolt says: right now we have 1 vote for hard rule singular
4:23:53 PM mlpvolt says: 2 votes for natural speech
4:23:54 PM Dave Thacker says: I think I answered three questions and then was drawn into a long chat with Marc and Gary....
4:24:15 PM mlpvolt says: and one fence sitter (me)
4:24:43 PM Dave Thacker says: Let me see if I can get into doc's search stats
4:24:45 PM mlpvolt says: which is strange because i'm usually such an opinionated jerk. :-)
4:26:40 PM Dave Thacker says: http://doc.tiki.org/tiki-search_stats.php seems to favor the singular
4:27:05 PM Dave Thacker says: If you can't see it let me know and I'll pastebin it.
4:27:18 PM Marc Laporte says: can be deleted later: http://doc.tiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=SearchStatsOnTwo
4:27:49 PM mlpvolt says: astrazenca?
4:29:03 PM mlpvolt says: well we should take the first 200 on that list and paste them into keywords
4:29:19 PM Dave Thacker says: agreed.
4:29:36 PM mlpvolt says: incredible efficiency
4:29:38 PM Dave Thacker says: Interesting Trackers shows up highest as a plural
4:30:17 PM Dave Thacker says: permissions-1833 permission-1511
4:30:31 PM Dave Thacker says: that's pretty close
4:30:39 PM mlpvolt says: articles beats article
4:30:48 PM Marc Laporte says: hahahahahahaha
4:30:48 PM mlpvolt says: by a nose
4:30:54 PM Marc Laporte says: empirical evidence!
4:31:05 PM mlpvolt says: feels good eh
4:31:30 PM mlpvolt says: how to kill a good argument
4:32:23 PM Dave Thacker says: by how much?
4:33:02 PM mlpvolt says: ....doing spreadsheet magic to include all keywords in keywords
4:33:06 PM Dave Thacker says: admin is a highly ranked search term. which kills my argument for avoiding tech speak
4:33:26 PM Dave Thacker pedals the bicycle to charge mlpvolts spreadsheet wand
4:34:19 PM Dave Thacker says: srcolls up to remember what Nelson said about conversion
4:34:34 PM Marc Laporte says: hehe, so can we put a deadline of Tuesday for choosing Singular vs Plural for all words currently on keywords so we can update the 1.9.8 tiki links to docs?
4:35:03 PM Marc Laporte says: we don't have to perfect, but let's be consistent :-)
4:36:34 PM Nelson Ko says: I am in favour of having redirects for all of these, since a lot of these searches are pretty close sing/plural.
4:36:43 PM Marc Laporte says: consistant between our docs/dev and tiki spp
4:36:50 PM Marc Laporte says: consistant between our docs/dev and tiki app
4:36:58 PM Nelson Ko says: As for the page pollution - I will think of how to reduce it.
4:38:18 PM Dave Thacker says: mlpvolt: are you still fence sitting, or are you coming over to the singular dark side :-)
4:38:36 PM Marc Laporte says: hahahahah
4:39:01 PM Nelson Ko says: I am such a bad environmentalist :-) supporting page polluiton now. lol
4:39:03 PM Marc Laporte says: who are the "2 votes for natural speech" ?
4:39:15 PM Nelson Ko says: pollute first, solve pollution later lol
4:39:21 PM mlpvolt says: chiba and xavi
4:39:52 PM Marc Laporte says: natural speech: where can I find definition?
4:40:07 PM Marc Laporte says: it is a bit subjective, no?
4:40:21 PM mlpvolt says: marc: i think that would e our list of search results
4:40:41 PM Marc Laporte says: yes, search results is king
4:40:46 PM mlpvolt says: natural speech = most common keyword
4:40:52 PM Marc Laporte says: Alain said: listen to your users
4:41:01 PM mlpvolt says: i am taking the first 250 for keywords
4:41:11 PM mlpvolt says: I am a user!
4:41:15 PM mlpvolt says: ha
4:41:40 PM mlpvolt says: new issue:
4:41:49 PM Marc Laporte says: image gallery vs image galleries ?
4:41:55 PM mlpvolt says: i would like to discuss user support
4:42:06 PM Dave Thacker says: I could support trackers over tracker and permissions or permission if that's what search results say.
4:42:38 PM mlpvolt says: note this page: http://doc.tiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Wiki+Problems&bl
4:42:55 PM mlpvolt says: our online "help system" now consists of
4:43:16 PM mlpvolt says: "triage desk" = shoutbox
4:43:34 PM mlpvolt says: forums - users helping users
4:44:51 PM mlpvolt says: wiki docs
4:44:54 PM mlpvolt says: irc
4:45:04 PM Marc Laporte says: "natural speech" = singular in 85%+ of the cases
4:45:20 PM Marc Laporte says: so, we are only debating 10-15% of keywords
4:45:38 PM mlpvolt says: most popular wins. i don't care if it is by two votes
4:45:57 PM mlpvolt says: (marc is searching for "article" as we speak)
4:46:22 PM mlpvolt says: the question is where do we want users to go first?
4:46:59 PM mlpvolt says: ideally i would say their first stop - is keyword search
4:47:08 PM Marc Laporte says: (LOL)
4:47:45 PM mlpvolt says: if that doesn't help try editing appropriate troubleshooting page
4:47:56 PM Dave Thacker says: I would flip that on it's head. Where do users want to go first? Usually IRC because they feel they will get quick feedback.
4:48:23 PM mlpvolt says: but thats where we don't want them to do because it doesn't support documentation.
4:48:37 PM mlpvolt says: iff
4:49:09 PM mlpvolt says: all troubleshooting pages are pagewatched by most devs and admins
4:49:12 PM mlpvolt says: and
4:49:32 PM mlpvolt says: two and doc two funnel users to troubleshooting pages
4:49:54 PM mlpvolt says: responses will be more quick than forcuing users to figure out irc
4:50:03 PM mlpvolt says: (which is not fun)
4:50:51 PM Nelson Ko says: gotta go now, so is the verdict of the vote natural speech according to search results?
4:51:10 PM Dave Thacker says: IMO, the pages approach ends up re-creating a lot of the wheel forums has already built.
4:51:16 PM mlpvolt says: in the event that troubleshooting page can't be edited to provide a relatively quick solution, we elevate it to a support ticked on dev.two
4:51:18 PM Dave Thacker says: Nelson: Yes for me
4:51:29 PM Marc Laporte says: Nelson: yes for me
4:51:42 PM mlpvolt says: so decided
4:52:34 PM Marc Laporte says: Mike : you in charge of renaming all the pages on dev.two and doc.tw.o and make sure they are in sync?
4:52:35 PM mlpvolt says: forums should be moved to doc site, and hopefully we can get hotlinks to work there.
4:52:59 PM mlpvolt says: everytime somebody mentions! an existing page, it links there.
4:53:14 PM Marc Laporte says: Mike: we need to stabilizing page names ASAP
4:54:33 PM Marc Laporte says: everyone: we are leaving to BBQ now. It's a great pleasure to be working with you all, eating our dogfood and improve Tiki app & tiki community
4:54:45 PM mlpvolt says: well since we all know the rule now - that should be that.
4:55:04 PM mlpvolt says: i have to go - marc can you broadcast the decision to the dev listserve
4:55:41 PM Dave Thacker says: I can send out the dev mail now.
4:55:45 PM Marc Laporte says: tks Dave
4:55:48 PM mlpvolt says: ps. am i the only one who has problems with bouncing posts on dev?
4:55:56 PM Marc Laporte says: me too, it bounces
4:56:01 PM Marc Laporte says: all of SF
4:56:08 PM Marc Laporte says: Sourceforge hates me
4:56:54 PM mlpvolt says: a stale blacklist i guess
4:57:13 PM Dave Thacker says: enjoy BBQ guys.
4:57:28 PM mlpvolt says: why not use a different listserve host?
4:57:39 PM mlpvolt says: yea i go bbq too.
4:57:46 PM mlpvolt says: Dave, it is dinnertime now.
4:57:50 PM mlpvolt says: :-)
4:57:53 PM mlpvolt says: see
4:57:55 PM Marc Laporte says: Mike: we could but priority is 198 and doc.tw.o
4:57:59 PM Marc Laporte says: :-)
4:58:29 PM mlpvolt says: i was thinking google group
4:58:35 PM mlpvolt says: ok must run bye
4:58:45 PM Dave Thacker says: bye
4:59:03 PM Marc Laporte thinks we should use Tiki groups
8:44:04 PM Marc Laporte says: If at all possible, mailing-list-to-forum-gateway

Keywords

The following is a list of keywords that should serve as hubs for navigation within the Tiki development and should correspond to documentation keywords.

Each feature in Tiki has a wiki page which regroups all the bugs, requests for enhancements, etc. It is somewhat a form of wiki-based project management. You can also express your interest in a feature by adding it to your profile. You can also try out the Dynamic filter.

Accessibility (WAI & 508)
Accounting
Administration
Ajax
Articles & Submissions
Backlinks
Banner
Batch
BigBlueButton audio/video/chat/screensharing
Blog
Bookmark
Browser Compatibility
Calendar
Category
Chat
Comment
Communication Center
Consistency
Contacts Address book
Contact us
Content template
Contribution
Cookie
Copyright
Credits
Custom Home (and Group Home Page)
Database MySQL - MyISAM
Database MySQL - InnoDB
Date and Time
Debugger Console
Diagram
Directory (of hyperlinks)
Documentation link from Tiki to doc.tiki.org (Help System)
Docs
DogFood
Draw -superseded by Diagram
Dynamic Content
Preferences
Dynamic Variable
External Authentication
FAQ
Featured links
Feeds (RSS)
File Gallery
Forum
Friendship Network (Community)
Gantt
Group
Groupmail
Help
History
Hotword
HTML Page
i18n (Multilingual, l10n, Babelfish)
Image Gallery
Import-Export
Install
Integrator
Interoperability
Inter-User Messages
InterTiki
jQuery
Kaltura video management
Karma
Live Support
Logs (system & action)
Lost edit protection
Mail-in
Map
Menu
Meta Tag
Missing features
Visual Mapping
Mobile
Mods
Modules
MultiTiki
MyTiki
Newsletter
Notepad
OS independence (Non-Linux, Windows/IIS, Mac, BSD)
Organic Groups (Self-managed Teams)
Packages
Payment
PDF
Performance Speed / Load / Compression / Cache
Permission
Poll
Profiles
Quiz
Rating
Realname
Report
Revision Approval
Scheduler
Score
Search engine optimization (SEO)
Search
Security
Semantic links
Share
Shopping Cart
Shoutbox
Site Identity
Slideshow
Smarty Template
Social Networking
Spam protection (Anti-bot CATPCHA)
Spellcheck
Spreadsheet
Staging and Approval
Stats
Survey
Syntax Highlighter (Codemirror)
Tablesorter
Tags
Task
Tell a Friend
Terms and Conditions
Theme
TikiTests
Timesheet
Token Access
Toolbar (Quicktags)
Tours
Trackers
TRIM
User Administration
User Files
User Menu
Watch
Webmail and Groupmail
WebServices
Wiki History, page rename, etc
Wiki plugins extends basic syntax
Wiki syntax text area, parser, etc
Wiki structure (book and table of content)
Workspace and perspectives
WYSIWTSN
WYSIWYCA
WYSIWYG
XMLRPC
XMPP




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